Michael: Hello there and welcome to HaBO Village Podcast. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: This is the podcast that helps business leaders build fulfilled companies. Companies where you are profitable and fulfilled in what you do and you build profit, purpose, and legacy throughout your company. You get to experience it, it's a huge reward. And we talk about everything from encouraging you, mindsets, thoughts about leadership, management, the whole kit and caboodle.
Kathryn: The whole kit and caboodle. Where does that come from?
Michael: I don't know. We've been talking about idioms a lot lately around the office. It's just Kathryn and I in the office and/or at home. I don't know where kit and caboodle comes from. The other one that was new to our daughter was something to middling.
Kathryn: Fair to middling.
Michael: Fair to middling. So I grew up with it being fair to Midland. And it turns out that if you do some research, this is a little trivia here. If you do some research on idioms, fair to Midland is really ... those people who say it on the internet, is the wrong way of saying it. It's actually originally fair to middling.
Michael: And it goes back to the way the five different ratings of cotton. And there was the first one, which was the best. And then there was the second and then the third was fair. And then the fourth was middling, as a level of quality.
Kathryn: There you go.
Michael: So if you say fair to middling or fair to Midland as the translation happened, it was like ... actually, maybe it was two, three. You're at average or slightly above average. And that's about where you are.
Kathryn: There you go. So do we care about kit and caboodle now?
Michael: What is kit and caboodle?
Kathryn: So the whole kit and caboodle means the entire amount of things or the entire group of people being discussed. The word kit in the phrase, the whole kit and caboodle is in reference to a soldier's kit. Which is the collection of supplies and personal items that a soldier carries with him. There you go.
Michael: This podcast is about the kit and caboodle of business.
Kathryn: The whole kit and caboodle of running a business.
Michael: Kit and caboodle. And today we're going to talk about leadership. Actually more specifically, Kathryn, how would you title it?
Kathryn: So I really want to spend some time talking about why we believe in you as a leader. So we're in the middle, still of this ongoing, exciting COVID-19 pandemic. Depending on where you are in the country, things may be lightening up a little bit. Things are trying to resume some level of open, some level of normal.
Michael: So this is the middle of May right now, when we're recording this. And a lot of the country is trying to open back up. We don't know what it's going to look like, how long it's going to last, is it going to be permanent? There's a lot of unknowns right now.
Kathryn: So as a leader, your job is to help your people navigate through the constant unknown, the shift, the turn, where we are. We're looking at bringing our people back next week. Some have already brought people back. And even in the middle of that, we're just trying to figure out what's the wise thing to do, the best thing to do.
Kathryn: So we want to talk about your mindset through this. And why we believe that you, as a leader, are going to be just fine. Like you are going to pull your team through, you're going to do an amazing job. And when this is all said and done, you're going to look back on 2020 and go, "Okay, we did this. We got through this thing."
Kathryn: So the first thing I want to talk about is wherever you are in your journey, you have exhibited some level of perseverance to get where you are. So Michael, talk to us about why perseverance matters so much in leadership.
Michael: Well, why is perseverance matter? It's a great question and it seems kind of obvious. If you don't push through, if you don't have enough.
Michael: If you don't have enough energy to push through those problems in any business. Especially for those of us who've been in business awhile and leading a while. We realized that there's ups and downs, there's good times and bad times, there's challenges and problems. There's full of opportunities and challenges to solve. Lots of opportunities for that.
Michael: So what it compel to, and if you don't have perseverance ... I love the book by Duckworth.
Kathryn: Grit.
Michael: Grit, she did a great job. It sounds weird saying Duckworth like that can't be her name, but that's-
Kathryn: Angela Duckworth.
Michael: What her name is. She's a very well respected researcher, writer and she's a good speaker. And she used to be a teacher. And the idea of what does it mean to build grit into people? How do you evaluate it? Because grit is really that idea of stick-to-itiveness, that we are able to hold onto so that we can accomplish things. It allows us, more than anything else, to finish what we started. I hadn't quite thought about like that. That's really the short of it. Perseverance, grit is important because it allows us to finish more things that we start.
Kathryn: Yeah. The reality is, as you lead, you come up against these challenges. They're new challenges. They're challenges you haven't solved before. But if you're a leader and you've been at this for any length of time. Then you need to pause sometimes and look at your history. Because to get where you are, you have been a problem solver.
Michael: Absolutely.
Kathryn: You have solved problems.
Michael: Absolutely.
Kathryn: You've applied creativity.
Michael: Totally.
Kathryn: You've displayed courage.
Michael: Courage.
Kathryn: Courage, courage. So you cannot lead without having a history of those things.
Michael: Yeah, if you dream well enough, you dream bigger things. That are going to potentially ... and they should. If you're where you're going, you're not sure if you can make it or not. You're not dreaming big enough. If you're like, "I don't know if we can make it there." Then maybe that's a good goal, a good dream. If you're like, "Okay, we're only going to pick things that we can absolutely, hundred percent, we're confident we can get to." That's fine for being strategic on a strategic day to day thing of saying, "What are the next goals over the next three months?"
Michael: But to really make an impact, to have real deep purpose and leave a legacy. That's really going to be impactful and make a difference in the world and the people around you. You got to dream big, you got to go stretch yourself. You've got to go beyond. Because we don't know what we can do ourselves. And so as leaders, many of you have already experienced this, you know this. And you just need to just be encouraged and re-encouraged because maybe some of you are right in the middle of one of those dreams. And with the COVID virus and everything else, you're like, "I don't know if we're going to make it."
Michael: And some of you are in the middle of dreams and you're like, "This is hard, but I'm in a season right now where I'm least encouraged." And some of you have slipped into ... because you've been at this for so long, you're in a place that's kind of dry. It's flat, it's level, there's no great goals going after, there's no great things. You've achieved a measure of success. And you're kind of like, "Hey, maybe it's time to dream again." And then you need that perseverance to go through those things.
Michael: Because I think there's a personification of some kind of force that stands against us and throws all those things in. And when you're trying to accomplish something and you just have problem after problem, after problem, that crops up to stop you. Like this podcast that we're trying to be on right now, this great podcasts. And the guy, first time he tries to interview us, he gets a massive migraine and has to cancel an hour and a half before the podcast. And then we're supposed to be on it later today. And now his fiber optics is out and he's in Singapore or something like that. So he feels bad, horrible. But this like, "Wow, you just keep hitting these things."
Michael: And you begin to think, "Man, there's something conspiring against us." And I would say that at some level, the system, the world accomplishing things that are worthwhile. There is something conspiring against us because it constantly comes up and it goes, "Well, here's this roadblock and here's this roadblock and here's this roadblock. Why can't it ever go smooth?" Perseverance allows you to fight. It's like being a Knight and being able to pull out your sword and have your shield. And perseverance allows you to slice through those problems and move forward so you can find the treasure.
Kathryn: Nice. Okay. So if you're struggling, I want to encourage you to just stop and remember. I want you to stop and think about times in the past, where you were pretty confident you weren't going to make it. You were pretty confident that whatever it was that you were trying to achieve was falling apart in front of you. And there was no way through it. And then I want you to think about where you are now compared to that place.
Kathryn: Because there's nothing like remembering that we've been in really hard things before and managed to find a way through-
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Kathryn: That will shore up your ability to believe, "Okay. I don't know what it is yet."
Michael: That's good.
Kathryn: "But there's a way through."
Michael: That's really good.
Kathryn: So as you're thinking about your business and you're thinking about the impact of the pandemic. I just know there is a way through for you. And you have demonstrated that in your past to get where you are so remember.
Michael: Good.
Kathryn: Remember.
Michael: Good. So if you're struggling, remember. Remember the victories you've had in the past.
Kathryn: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, you've made it here. You made it this far. Way to go.
Kathryn: Yeah.
Michael: You're all rock stars. You made it this far.
Kathryn: Here's the other thing, I believe that you are incredibly resourceful.
Michael: All right, talk to me about what you mean by that.
Kathryn: So again, you-
Michael: When you say you, you're not talking to me-
Kathryn: I'm talking to you.
Michael: You're talking to our listeners.
Kathryn: I'm talking to our listeners.
Michael: Our leaders.
Kathryn: I mean, I believe you're resourceful too.
Michael: Right.
Kathryn: Our leaders.
Michael: But our listeners and all of they've been doing. Yeah. Whether they're new in business or whether they've been at this a long time.
Kathryn: Yep, men and women, you are resourceful people.
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: You know how to build things, you know how to go after things, you know how to pull on resources outside of yourself. You are smart and you are resourceful. I know that because you wouldn't be where you are if you weren't. And if you are a person who cares about both passion and provision. Which I'm going to guess that you must, or why would you be listening to the two of us yammer on week after week after week about this.
Michael: And on and on.
Kathryn: If that's who you are, then you are a resourceful leader.
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: You are a learner.
Michael: Yes.
Kathryn: And if you don't know what to do yet, you know where to go to learn. And if you don't know where to go to learn, you have people you can ask-
Michael: Yes.
Kathryn: That can point you in directions. Because you're resourceful.
Michael: Yes.
Kathryn: That's what I mean.
Michael: I like that. Yeah, they are resourceful.
Kathryn: They are. I believe in them.
Michael: At this point, they've solved lots of problems. What if they don't feel right now like they are very resourceful? Or they've tapped the resourcefulness and it's empty?
Kathryn: Then it's time to reach out to a friend. It's time to reach out to someone else you know. Whether it's sending us an email and saying, "Hey, I'm stuck here. Can you help me? Can you give me some direction?" Or someone else that you already are connected with in business, in life that can mentor you through some things.
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: Like go after those people.
Michael: Yeah. So when you feel empty, how do you get restored? How do you kind of put some gas back in the tank? What's one thing you can do in the midst of this to remind yourself that you're resourceful? I'm picturing right now, somebody sitting in their car, driving on the highway and they're not feeling peppy. That was a very peppy ... She's dancing in her chair.
Kathryn: I was doing the driving.
Michael: But it's not peppy driving. It's more hunched over. I mean, there's those moments where you're like, "I don't know how to get out of this. This one feels heavier than before." And it should. Because you're a leader, you're moving, you're growing. The challenge you're facing today, the dragon you're facing today should be a bigger dragon than the one you faced a couple of years ago.
Michael: So in the midst of that, that discouragement. What's a one thing like, "I don't know if I have it in me right now to fight this battle."
Kathryn: I'm just going to be honest. When days like that happen, and they happen, we have them-
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: I have them-
Michael: Yeah, we do.
Kathryn: You have them. Right. One of the things I do is I remind myself that a good night's sleep can change my perspective.
Michael: That's huge.
Kathryn: So in my world, I will use the phrase because of my faith, my past, my walk with Jesus. I will say, "There are new mercies tomorrow."
Michael: New mercies in the morning.
Kathryn: New mercies in the morning.
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: So sometimes you just need to get some sleep and reoriented.
Michael: Yeah. I would say two things. That's the first thing I would say is there is a direct correlation to discouragement-
Kathryn: And exhaustion.
Michael: And exhaustion. Direct correlation. So sometimes you've got to say, "There's not enough time for everything. I've got to do this, this and this. And I have to give up this, this and this." It's amazing how often some people will say that sleep is one of the first things they give up. Because they think that if they give up sleep, they'll actually accomplish more. But it's really a lot harder. So sometimes you have to give up other stuff to get the sleep. So that the work you're going to have in the short term and the long term is actually going to be better and more effective. So get some sleep. Gives you perspective and everything else.
Michael: The other thing is, if you're in one of those places right now, I want you to think of that one person. It's somebody who can encourage you, that's not having a bad day on the same day. And it may be a friend you haven't talked to in a while and you need to call them up. You're like, "I'm in one of those places. I know I'll come out of it, but I need help. I need to be encouraged. I need to be told that this is not the end. And I need to be told that." And why I need somebody to help believe in me? Because today I don't have enough hope for myself.
Kathryn: Remind me who I am and what I've done.
Michael: Yeah. And really folks, if you're having a hard time with that, just ask somebody. And it's even better for those of you who aren't in that place. We all will be in that place again. So it's really good to have a couple of people. We have each other, Kathryn and I. And then we have a couple of other people, probably a handful of people that get it. They understand this conversation, we've had this conversation. So we say, "Look, I'm in one of those dark places. I need you to listen to me and encourage me. I need to be encouraged and reminded that we can do this and this is possible." And sometimes they listen and they go, "Well, that's dark."
Kathryn: Wow, you really weren't kidding.
Michael: And then they buck up and kind of do it. When you find somebody who's not having a bad day at the same time, you need those one or two people in your life that are going to encourage you. If you're in that dark place right now, think about one of those people that's like that. Even if you haven't talked to him awhile and say, "Hey, I'm in a rough place and I need to be encouraged." And then if you don't have those people, then you want to start finding out who could be like that. And who's game for that kind of conversation. And then you start developing a code. I need the dark place pep-talk.
Kathryn: In our house, it goes like this. "Is there hope?"
Michael: There's always hope.
Kathryn: That's always the answer. Is there hope? There's always hope.
Michael: There's always hope. And it's really hard to push through if you don't have hope. And that's really the bottom line. When somebody is encouraging you, you're trying to go, "Okay, is there any hope of me actually solving this, getting through. And the collateral damage, not being so bad that it destroys us."
Kathryn: So that-
Michael: So that's, yeah.
Kathryn: Yeah.
Michael: Keep going.
Kathryn: So that resourcefulness. So that leads into really kind of the key pieces. And that is, I believe that you are going to succeed because of your community.
Michael: Oh.
Kathryn: So we will say, "You don't get to clarity alone." We have a dear friend of ours, Terry Walling, that's one of his sayings. We have adopted it, amazing. You don't get to clarity alone. Odds are, as a leader, you have already built a community. You already have people. So when Michael was saying, "Who is that person?" You had somebody come to mind. It's because you have a community.
Kathryn: And in this season that we're in. In this season of not knowing what the impact on business is. In an economy that just ... even if you're not an economist, you just look at it and you go, "How? How do we ever recover?"
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: How does the world recover? So in that place, the more you're able to be connected with other people who are walking the journey. Then the more able you are to continue to lead well through it. Because you have this recognition and realization that you're not alone.
Michael: You're speaking to things that are reasons why we wrote the book, Fulfilled.
Kathryn: Yeah.
Michael: And reasons why we built our agency and what we do for consulting. And reasons why we built our membership. I mean, that right there is a huge part of it, is how do you have community around other people who get it and understand? And so you don't have to try and explain a bunch of stuff that they don't get anyway. If you're in business, everybody who's in business is on one side of this ravine. And everybody who's never run a business is on the other side of the ravine. And we say that the people who've never run a business, when they look at us and they look at this ravine. What they see as a small little drainage ditch that they could jump over. It's there, if you're not watching, you're going to fall into it. But really you could jump over, it's not that big a deal.
Michael: And to us, when we're looking, we realize that that drainage ditch once we crossed it, when we looked back, it's a Grand Canyon. It's a massive ... there are so many other things that we have to think about and deal with and be concerned about and manage. That nobody else ever even sees. And so you need people who understand that when you're talking that they go, "I get it." And you know they get it.
Kathryn: Yeah.
Michael: Just having that other person say, "I understand." Yeah, you do, don't you? Yeah.
Kathryn: Yeah. Here's the weird thing. When you have that other person who understands that they don't even have to solve it for you. There is strength that comes in simply having someone say, "Yep, I am walking that journey and sharing that burden." There's just something amazing about that.
Michael: It's very powerful, the sentence, you are not alone. Or the sentiment that comes with those relationships, you are not alone. Is super, super powerful. And I think actually it does give hope. It's like, have you ever experienced this? Sometimes you feel like you're the only person facing this problem. And then you talk to somebody else and they're like, "I faced that. Yeah, I've been there."
Kathryn: One of the things that's been so interesting about the pandemic is that everybody's experiencing it. Now as a leader, obviously there are different sectors and different industries and different impact depending on what kind of business you run. So not everybody's experiencing the same thing.
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: But there are lots of other people, regardless of whether you are blowing up because you have too much work. Or you are fair to Midland-
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: Or you are thinking, you're not sure that your business can survive. There are lots of other people in each of those groups, you are absolutely not alone.
Michael: Yeah.
Kathryn: But it's super important, you guys, as leaders, we believe in you finding the people who are going to breathe life into you. Not just commiserate with you.
Michael: One of the things that's interesting. It just came to mind, is when you're sitting there trying to think of ... and it kind of goes back to your first point, a little bit. When you're sitting there and you're struggling, think back to something you overcome. One of the things that just came to mind is thinking about scenarios in history. This is one of the things that I do. Is I think about scenarios in history, specifically, as much as I've experienced. Where things went from bad to good or changed significantly and nobody ever saw it. And did they recover?
Michael: I think about the time when you and I were working for a client and they were doing a C-suite retreat in Lake Las Vegas. Which is ... for those of you, if you've never been there or don't know about it. It's a small little community about 30 minutes from downtown Vegas. You actually leave the city of Las Vegas, go across the valley and-
Kathryn: The desert.
Michael: The valley. There's not much growing there. And then you come across this lake that they built in this beautiful community and everything else. And we went there, it's kind of a gated community and beautiful houses, beautiful golf course and-
Kathryn: A couple of beautiful hotel.
Michael: Well, the Ritz Carlton was there. Loews Las Vegas.
Kathryn: The Ritz Carlton. Loews Las Vegas.
Michael: Loews Las Vegas.
Kathryn: Beautiful.
Michael: Which I'd never heard of Loews but is a high end hotel brand.
Kathryn: Yeah. L-O-E-W-S, as opposed to L-O-W-E-S.
Michael: Right. Its not where I go to get a shovel.
Kathryn: Its not the hardware store.
Michael: Right. Beautiful hotels. So we stayed at the Loews, which was amazing, right on the Lake. Beautiful patio fireplaces out on the patio and all this kind of stuff. And then the Ritz Carlton was next door. And then next to the Ritz Carlton in a small casino, was this remake of an Italian village.
Kathryn: Yeah, it was gorgeous.
Michael: It was beautiful, busy, lights at night.
Kathryn: Restaurants and shops and expensive things you can't afford to buy.
Michael: And it had a great vibe and all the landscape was done. It was just gorgeous. And as you drive through these beautiful houses and developments and golf courses, you're like ... and we were a lot younger too. You're like, "This is amazing. I love this. And I don't want to live in Las Vegas, but this is beautiful." And it was the right time of year, so it wasn't too hot out. And all our expenses were paid for.
Kathryn: Yes, it was a good day.
Michael: It was perfect. So I think of Lake Las Vegas. Now, the reason I think of Lake Las Vegas is the next time we went back, we went out to a sushi restaurant that we'd eaten at before. Turned out it was in the middle of the great recession. Our first trip was pre great recession. Then we were out there in the great recession. Literally the entire development had gone bankrupt. Ritz Carlton was gone, Loews had sold, the village was vacant.
Kathryn: The golf course was brown.
Michael: The golf course ... the company who owned it, the golf course. There was probably two golf courses there that were like professional style golf courses. And the company had run it had gone bankrupt, abandoned the entire project and literally the city of Las Vegas or the County had bought it and taken it back. I don't even think they paid for it. They took it back just so they could turn the water on because it was continuing to lower the value of the entire community. There literally were six foot, seven foot tall weeds in the sand traps. It was horrific. The sushi restaurant was still open, but the vibe of everything was gone.
Michael: We talked to a couple of people that had worked there and they said, it's been ... the people who were still working there in this restaurant, where almost nobody came to eat. I don't know why they were open, maybe they were sponsored by the hotel. They were like, "It's just been horrible. And I don't know if we're ever going to come out of it." And from everything I've heard, that entire area, when they never thought they would ever come out of bankruptcy. They never thought they would come back. The golf courses would never come back. Came out of the recession, slowly rebuilt and they did.
Michael: The reason I say all this is I tell this to tell you a detailed story so that it's like, these are the moments that you've seen as leaders. You've seen different things if you've been around it all and you've watched them. And if you haven't watched them, there are older leaders that you know, that have seen these seasons. They've gone through these things and they've come back.
Michael: As we are in this season of unknown right now, if I ever get nervous. I remind myself that we survived as a family, through the dot com and my family survived-
Kathryn: The dot com crash?
Michael: The dot come crash in 2001. We survived the great recession as a business in our family. My family growing up survived the oil embargo of the seventies, the massive destruction of the prime rate going to 21% in 1980. And even the recession of '87 through '91. It was hard, but we all made it, we all survived. It didn't leave too many scars and we've had a good life.
Michael: So we remember those things because it's like remembering that stuff that's come on that didn't really happen to us. Lake Las Vegas didn't happen to us, but we saw how drastic it was. And they all believe when we were there the first time, a place like this could never ... nobody would ever imagine that it would end up like it did just four years later.
Kathryn: Yeah.
Michael: These things come and go, storms come and go. You are resourceful. You have community. You have grit.
Kathryn: You have a proven history of solving problems that you need to remember.
Michael: You can do this.
Kathryn: You can do this.
Michael: You can make it through this. You can lead your people. You can lead your family. You can lead your company. And if you're not the senior leader and you're on the team, you can be an incredibly valuable part of the team and help. And no matter where you are, what you do, you're going to be part of that. You've proven it before. You're going to do it again.
Kathryn: So we believe in you. We just wanted to tell you that this week.
Michael: So we hope that's encouraging. We want it to be encouraging. Think about it, reach out to those people. Maybe journal if you're a journal-er. But find a moment or two of remembering where you succeeded and finding somebody who can encourage you. And maybe a community that can help you. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And this is the HaBO Village podcast. If any of this has sounded encouraging and helpful to you, we have a book called Fulfilled that talks about all of these great things. And having a passion and provision company, what you have to remember and need to get, to get there. And you can go to fulfilledthebook.com and get that book for half off. Have a great day.
Kathryn: Take care.
Michael: Bye bye.
Kathryn: Bye bye.
