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Why Leaders Need Community [Podcast]

Episode 80: Michael and Kathryn dig into an important topic: Community. All business leaders need a like-minded community if they want to grow... a safe space where they can share struggles and acquire new ideas for solutions. If you're starting to feel lonely on your journey as a leader, then this episode is for you.

community of leaders talking


In This Episode You Will...

  • Discover the top reasons leaders find it hard to grow their businesses in the absence of community.

  • Find out how being a part of a like-minded community helped Michael and Kathryn grow their business.

  • Learn what belonging, safety, and purpose have to do with accelerating your growth.

“It's an incredible gift when you find someone who can say, 'Oh, that struggle? I've been there too.'"
– KATHRYN Redman

Take the Leadership Blindspot Quiz

 

References:
Jeff Walker
HaBO Village Waitlist

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Michael:
              Hello and welcome to HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman.


Kathryn:
               And, I'm Kathryn Redman.


Michael:
              This is the podcast that helps leaders of small businesses build passion, provision companies for more profit and joy, and have more profit, purpose and legacy. We're working on that last part, continuing to try it out, but that's really the heart and soul of what we're about here on this podcast and we talk about different issues. Today, we're going to talk about the issue of community and why you need a community as a leader that's different than your employees, different than your customers, different than your family. You need a community of people who are peers that understand and can have some kind of understanding of who you are and what you do in life, the role you play as a business leader.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, we'll say things like ... I mean, leadership is lonely is a really common term, right?


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               So for a lot of business leaders, the feeling that it can be overwhelming and discouraging and lonely to be a leader. Where do you turn when those kinds of things are happening, when you're not at the top of the world or things aren't growing great, you're stuck, you're whatever, and how important it is to have a community? So, we talked about limiting beliefs last week and promised that we would move into community as a way of helping you both identify and then work through the limiting beliefs that are holding you back.


Kathryn:
               So, we want to spend that time today talking about the community and what the power is of the community. One of the illustrations I heard that I just loved is that we live in a world and it's true online in social media, just in our personal worlds, but it's also true in business where most of the time what we see from other businesses or from the magazines we read or for whatever else, it's the total success stories, right? Someone referred to it in a talk that they gave a couple of years ago, totally impacted me. What we see is front of stage, right? We see the well polished performance and the results of that and we see this stuff that's amazing.


Kathryn:
               What we don't often get to see is what it took to get there and what they call the back of stage or behind the stage. Right? So oftentimes, what ends up happening as leaders is if we don't have relationships with other leaders where we actually get to talk about the challenges and the ups and downs of growing a business, we end up comparing our back of stage to somebody else's front of stage.


Michael:
              Yeah, it's true. You hear stories that are going great. One story we heard this last week was I run $1 million company. We have now grown it to be $1 million small business and we regularly have no money leftover after we pay all of our expenses and everything else. It's killing us. It's struggling. It's hard. If we don't fix it now, we're going to make it to 10 million and we're going to have the exact same problem. We're going to spend 10 million earning 10 million. We're not going to have anything left over for our hard work. She's looking at me going on, "My husband's going ah."


Kathryn:
               Yeah. [inaudible 00:03:08] The interesting part is that this person is a person who often gets called up to talk about how they've grown their business and how amazing it is and blah, blah, blah. So, it's really interesting how we can get set up as leaders. I had to laugh because literally, Michael and I have a successful business. We're doing stuff. We're making it happen. We've been in business 17 years. There's a lot of reasons to go, "You know what? We're okay. We've done this."


Kathryn:
               Yet last week, I'm in this room of people or two weeks ago, I'm in this room of people and I'm literally having one of those moments where I just assume based on all of the whoa that's going on around that everybody's smarter than I am, that they're all doing much better, that their businesses have no issues and no challenges. It's really interesting how in business we can set each other up that way because we're not creating a safe place to have a conversation about what it's really like.


Michael:
              Yeah, absolutely. So, what we're going to talk about as we dive in today is that community, what are you looking for in a community? You need community to grow. You need a healthy and a safe community to grow. One of the reasons a lot of entrepreneurs don't get into communities is either they believe that they can do it all on their own and they don't need anybody else. They don't realize the value of that. Or you get into a place where you're like, "Yeah, most of those communities cost money." I'm telling you, you can go ... One of the lessons I learned from a mentor of ours and a friend, Ryan Deiss, he has said over and over again money by speed and one of the ways money buys speed is just accelerating like buying more marketing and doing everything else and investing in certain things that are real key.


Michael:
              The other place that money buy speed is in learning, knowledge. It is an ancient concept that actual knowledge, not just empty knowledge, but knowledge and understanding and then applying that knowledge can accelerate, will accelerate. It's wisdom to gain knowledge and understanding. You don't want empty knowledge. You don't want knowledge that you're not going to do anything with or that doesn't help. When you're part of a community of people who have been successful or are pursuing success and learning and growing, there's a lot of things that can be shared there.


Michael:
              We learn a lot in the communities that we pay a fair amount of money to be a part of. It's super important. It has been incredibly valuable, but you know where it's been valuable more than anything else to me is the fact that we're not alone. I immediately have other folks that run agencies and consulting firms that I can call around the world right now. I was just texting with a friend of ours that's in South Africa the other day. Special moments like being at a place where when you build these relationships and there ... and one of the characteristics of relationships is safety, vulnerability, then all of a sudden you get to share and be known because we have a huge need as human beings to be known.


Michael:
              When you're in a leadership role owning a small business, people don't understand. They don't get it. They don't understand the challenges. They don't understand the stress. They don't understand the day in and day outs of it. That doesn't mean that they're all bad, but it's just like, "Okay, how do you find your peers? How do you find somebody to hang out with?"


Kathryn:
               So, one of the things we know to be true is that every company has its own journey, right? Every company has its own path that you're walking through it. Every leader has their own journey. They're not identical. We have our own story and understanding your story matters and all of those things. There are also commonalities. We have common struggles. We have places that we run into. The trap that you can be in if you're not surrounding yourself with a community of people who do something similar to what you do, is that you can begin to believe that you're the only one that has that challenge.


Michael:
              Yeah, absolutely.


Kathryn:
               Right? So, you get stuck. You end up-


Michael:
              Or you don't know where to go to help.


Kathryn:
               You don't know where to get help or you-


Michael:
              I believe there's other people out there, but I don't know where to go or find them.


Kathryn:
               Right. Or depending on your personality, because some of you are like, "I'm smart. I'm brilliant." but some of you probably struggle with, you know what, this just means I'm not as smart as every other business leader because I'm having this trouble. It is an incredible gift to find somebody who says, "Oh, that struggle, oh yeah, been there." or "Oh yeah, I am there." To realize you're not alone in that struggle, incredibly powerful.


Michael:
              Yeah. It's really nice to be around people who in those communities that are like, "Yeah, I struggle with that. Here's some things I've done." As opposed to, "Oh, you have that problem, let me tell you how to fix it."


Kathryn:
               Oh yes.


Michael:
              It's like nobody wants a know it all right up front. If I ask you for your opinion and I build trust with you, then great, tell me about it. If I'm being vulnerable and you start trying to solve all my problems, that's not building vulnerability. So being in a community, the reason we're talking about this today is because of the past podcast we did on limiting beliefs and how we get stuck. One of the ways we talked about in that podcast of getting out of that is getting around people in a like-minded community that can help give you perspective and help you see yourself either through conversation, being able to share, you share vulnerabilities, you share things you're struggling with, challenges you're having, and then you also have this amazing pool of humble people who you can share solutions. How did I solve it? How am I trying to solve it? How did you try and solve it?


Kathryn:
               Well, and I'm going to tell you a story of something that happened for Michael and I in community a long time ago. We were young in our business, so we were probably, I don't know, a couple three years in. We were struggling a little. We were trying to figure out what the next steps were going to be. We were in kind of a small group of leaders and having just conversations, talking about the struggles. One of our mentors leaders also ended up becoming a client and we've had a longstanding relationship, but we actually said, "We just wonder if we need to close the doors and I am so afraid of failure. I just feel like people will look at us and say, you failed."


Kathryn:
               This super successful, really wise, very kind businessman looked at us and said, "You know what? If you close the doors today, we would still see you as successful because you fought the good fight. I don't think you need to close the doors. I think you guys have a lot in front of you, but if you were to not make it, just know that we already perceive you as successful." Do you remember that?


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               Oh my gosh. It was like this amazing sense of somebody believes in me more than I believe in myself.


Michael:
              Somebody who's not your mom.


Kathryn:
               Right? They don't have to. They're not being paid to believe in you.


Michael:
              Right. They're not being paid. They're not ... It's not their job, their responsibility. It's somebody who ... I talk about this a lot. It's somebody that has an informed decision, an informed opinion, right? They're sitting, they're going, "I believe in you." This is somebody who's seen good times and bad times, whose wife left him when he had three young girls and has walked ups and downs in life and in business.


Michael:
              Now, he's been very, very, very successful and came from a successful family, but when you got to know him, you realize life was no bed of roses. It wasn't just a cakewalk everywhere. When you're in your late 20s and all of a sudden you've got three girls and your wife walks out and leaves you with the girls and doesn't take them, you're like, "Holy crap. My life just got turned upside down." We've just watched him for years and with great respect and the challenges he's faced, multiple challenges that money just doesn't solve.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. He's really let us see back of stage.


Michael:
              Oh, he's just been an amazing guy. That was super encouraging because we were early in our journey. It was like, "Yeah, I believe in you. I don't think ..." The fact that he said you could quit and go home tomorrow and you wouldn't be a failure.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. That was really big. One of the reasons that business leaders, and I think men struggle with it more than women, but there are women who struggle with it, too. One of the reasons that you don't want to be vulnerable about being scared or being overwhelmed or being discouraged is because you don't want to appear weak. You want everybody to think you have it together because as a leader, as it turns out, it's a job.


Michael:
              When you say you, you're saying you, we.


Kathryn:
               You, we, we as leaders.


Michael:
              The corporate you. Yeah.


Kathryn:
               The corporate you. Yeah. So, there are some of you out there where your ego is getting in the way of you finding the help that you need, because the fear that somebody will think less of you if you own that this is really freaking hard. That running a business, owning a business as it turns out, has more challenges than anticipated when you dreamed it up. So, to get to the place where you actually are able to say some of those things out loud in a safe place where people are going to say, "Yeah, I hear you and I get that. I've been there or tell me more, or whatever."


Kathryn:
               There's so much power in that to break through and to help you identify limiting beliefs from what we talked about in last week's podcast to help you uncover what's going on inside of you that keeps you running up against a wall. So, there's just incredible power in finding a community of people who understand what you do or in kind of the same peer position as you are in their company, so that you can have an honest conversation and then just know you're not alone.


Michael:
              Yeah. You're looking for a community that's going to help you. I mean, this is why we hire consultants and coaches and stuff like that, but it's also helpful to have a peer community. A lot of times you have to pay membership fee to get into a community like that. Definitely worth the money. We used to think it was stupid to spend the money on it, but when you do that, all of a sudden over time it's like, it's hard to create the safety, especially amongst a bunch of business-


Kathryn:
               It's dangerous to create safety.


Michael:
              Dangerous. It's hard to create safety and it can become a dangerous place if anybody can come and go in your community. So, one of the reasons that good communities, peer communities, even rotary that I was in for 12 years, cost money. There are certain requirements. One of them is you have to pay a fee because it weeds out people who are just like they don't want to grow. They're there to leech and to take as much as they can and they didn't want to give. You want to be a part of a community that has people who are giving and receiving. That's a good part of the community because they help you read the label on the outside. You're looking for places where you can go, "Okay, you're looking for community. How can I contribute to this community?" Being in community, I'm expecting that it's going to help me grow because somebody else is contributing and they're going to be a place of safety.


Michael:
              Now, we continued to talk about that. There's three characteristics in a community that I think are really important for us to look at if we want to continue to grow our company, our organization. We want to develop a more of a passion provision company. You're going to want to look for a company that has three major characteristics.


Kathryn:
               A community. You're going to want to look for a community.


Michael:
              A community although I think your company should do that too, but now I'm just trying to manipulate my bad answer into sounding like it's something I said. I meant to say-


Kathryn:
               I meant that.


Michael:
              I meant to say that. I didn't. Three things. We talk about this in building culture. You need to have a place that has three specific skills that are going on that are actively encouraged. One is building safety that explores how signals of connection generate bonds of belonging and identity. You want to be in a place that ... and actually people are actively engaged in building safety and sending these connections and generating bonds and belonging and identity. We all want to be known. We all want to belong. It's really good when we can say, I found my tribe. This is my tribe.


Michael:
              We, Kathryn and I, have been fortunate because we have multiple tribes that are all the sub tribes of like the bigger tribe because we bring friends together at times for events and they like, "How do you know these people? Where did you find these people?" It's like we have people, but when they all sit down and talk, they like each other.


Kathryn:
               Well, and do you know why?


Michael:
              Because they're the same [crosstalk 00:15:26]


Kathryn:
               Because they're our people.


Michael:
              They're our people.


Kathryn:
               They're our people.


Michael:
              We like our people.


Kathryn:
               We like our people.


Michael:
              It's awesome.


Kathryn:
               We wouldn't bring them together if we didn't think they'd like each other.


Michael:
              When we had dinner with Marcus in Austin recently, Marcus and his wife. So, we've got some friends at an organization called Digital Marketer. We're part of that. That's one of our tribes.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. We had Ryan Deiss on the podcast too a few weeks ago, right?


Michael:
              Oh yeah, we had Ryan Deiss. Yeah. So-


Kathryn:
               So, Marcus works with Ryan.


Michael:
              Yeah. He does his business development stuff and things like that. He goes all over the world and speaks. Marcus is just a neat guy and we love him. Matter of fact, there's an interview, Marcus interviewing me on the website on Habovillage.com and you get a chance to see Marcus if you-


Kathryn:
               Marcus is cool.


Michael:
              Maybe you've seen that interview. He's wonderful. It's funny because Marcus is definitely part of our tribe. He's part of our ilk. His wife is wonderful. They love Jesus and they love business. They're creative and they've got two beautiful little girls. We were hanging out at their house, having dinner, had the blessing of being able to go over to their house and have dinner. There's things about your tribe that you just like you get into conversations, you talk into the night, you share stories, you laugh, you can relate to the pain of parts of the story. I wasn't telling you this ... I didn't tell you this. This happened yesterday in our office. Vicky, our office manager, was with us on this trip and she was hanging out at the Murphy's house with us. We have never, ever, ever, ever talked about writing a book about our marriage.


Kathryn:
               No, we're still not talking about it.


Michael:
              Actually, we are now.


Kathryn:
               No, we're not.


Michael:
              Some of you know, we're writing a book right now on the passion and provision model called fulfilled.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, for business.


Michael:
              It's a big endeavor, huge endeavor. We were there. We were in the middle of this writing and we're hanging out at the Murphy's house and all of a sudden out of nowhere, Marcus who describes me as one of his mentors, which is super honoring, says, "Oh yeah, you know what? You guys got to write a book about your marriage." We're like, "What?" I mean like out of left field, something we never thought about. You've got to write a book. Great ideas come out of community. Great ideas, when you're in a community and you're like, "Yeah." He's like, "Oh yeah, you guys should do this. This would be super helpful." People like his wife and he-


Kathryn:
               Her name is Gina by the way.


Michael:
              Gina, sorry. Gina and Marcus like, "Oh yeah, this would be really valuable because you guys have had the success you've had." We've been married over 26 years at this point, the recording of this podcast, and we're hanging out and he's telling us we should do this. Well, here's the part that came out yesterday in the office. Vicky and I were talking. You weren't around. She said, "When Marcus said that I had never thought about you guys writing a book about your marriage and yet my immediate thought was, Oh yeah, absolutely. That's a great idea. That should do that." It was like she'd been thinking about it for years and had never thought about it type of thing. It resonated with her so much. This is the way she kind of described it. So, I'm like when you're part of a community, you start to see your value because your value comes out. The things that are maybe closest to you that you would never see that would be helpful is somebody goes, "You should do this because this would be valuable to us."


Kathryn:
               Well, and it's interesting because what ends up happening in the midst of a safe community where you put yourself out there, you get to know people is you get to see how you're perceived. On the best of days, people actually see things in you that you're not even seeing in yourself. They call those things out, right? They give you hope. We talk about how there are days that are so discouraging in business, that are so dark that you literally have to live on the faith that other people have for you. We've had many of those days of our 17 years of business, we just have.


Kathryn:
               So, to be able to be part of a community that like our friend who basically said, even if you close the doors today, we would see you as successful, to shift that understanding of, okay, but, but how I'm perceiving myself and how I'm perceiving the challenge I have and how people outside of me and outside of my head and outside of my emotions and the swirl or whatever else are seeing it, it can radically shift perspective. It's powerful stuff.


Michael:
              Yeah, it really is. It's super powerful. That's the strength and the value of community. When you're finding a community that does those three things, that creates a belonging and-


Kathryn:
               That builds safety and shares vulnerability and has a purpose, right? That actually you're not just there to vent your stuff, but you're actually are there with a purpose of growing, with the purpose of changing, with the purpose of moving forward. Maybe getting some skills along the way, getting equipped. Those are really powerful communities to be a part of.


Michael:
              It says this in the culture code. I love the way he synopsis or-


Kathryn:
               Summarizes?


Michael:
              Thank you. Golly. Words are hard.


Kathryn:
               Tough.


Michael:
              These three skills, build safety, share vulnerability, establish purpose, these three skills work together from the bottom up. First, building connection and then channeling it into action.


Kathryn:
               Nice. That is beautiful.


Michael:
              Just like, "Okay, I want to be the best version of myself." I want us, I mean folks, Kathryn and I are on this journey. We want to be the best individual versions of ourselves, and because we are such a team in our marriage and in our job and everything else as business partners, we want to be the best we can be together in our community. We want our team and our staff as a company, we want to be the best version of a company, the best version of a team we can be, and then we build back to the individuals. How do we support? How do we encourage? How do we celebrate one another? How do we celebrate one another's weaknesses and uniquenesses and-


Kathryn:
               How do we celebrate our weaknesses?


Michael:
              Well, sometimes our-


Kathryn:
               I hate those.


Michael:
              Well, I know it's hard sometimes, but it really is a thing.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, it is.


Michael:
              We want to be the best. How do you be the best? You surround yourself with other people who are like minded, who are bright. Yes, they're going to have different things and you don't want to just surround yourselves with people who think just like you, but having common values so that they're going to help you achieve and go after those goals as BHAGs in your life that resonate. You don't want to be around people that have completely opposite values.


Kathryn:
               No.


Michael:
              You want to have different perspectives and you want to have different personalities and you want to have different strengths around you and all that kind of stuff, but you don't want to be around people who have different values that are so different that they're not going to reinforce. They're going to tear down your values. They're going to take you away from your core purpose and your core values, and they're not going to help you grow if you can build a community like that and find a community like that. That's one of the main reasons we started Half a Bubble Out so we could have our own community for that.


Michael:
              We started HaBO Village in the sense of an online free community. Then we'll be starting our membership site this fall, fall of 2019, and continuing to bring people into a community because we want to be around more people where we can give and help them grow if they value passion and provision, if they value profit and purpose and legacy in their company, and they value building and leading and making sure that they're giving back and providing good jobs, whether it's in freelancers or it's in having employees, but they want to multiply and give away the good that they have, the benefit. We want to continue to help people do that because we've seen success in doing that. We've done it ourselves and we want to help build that community.


Michael:
              So, we've started whether some of you know it or not, HaBO Village as a membership site that's going to be starting this fall. At some level in that community, we want to invite people that want to come in. We don't know what it's going to cost yet. We don't know exactly how it's all going to go together yet, but we are thinking about how to bring together folks that are like minded that want to continue to grow and build and have that sense of shared purpose and shared meaning for your business. You want to have cheerleaders like us and other folks that are saying, "Okay, we want to resource you. We want to resource leaders and experts so that you can build and create this passion provision company that allows you to bring your uniqueness and your giftedness to your community and build it and be leaders and lead in a way that is servant leadership."


Kathryn:
               Yeah. So, one of those-


Michael:
              I got all excited about this.


Kathryn:
               I know. I know. That's amazing. One of the speakers at a conference we were recently, Jeff Walker, who does product launch formula and has done brilliantly. He said something that really stuck for me. He said, it is your journey and your sacred duty to put your best work out into the world, your journey in your sacred duty.


Michael:
              I loved it when he said that.


Kathryn:
               I loved it too. I think for me, what I wrote down was Michael and I believe that leading a business is a sacred duty and a journey. So, our passion, our heart is to walk with leaders to help you go deep in the fundamentals of growing a good business and creating a healthy culture and living into what it looks like to have profit and purpose and legacy, right? To not think you have to choose between making money and keeping relationships and having your values in place and that kind of thing, which is one of the reasons businesses get upended and don't survive and fail after a couple of three years is it's sucking the life out of you or it's destroying your relationships because you're spending too much time or whatever else. There's a bazillion reasons. So, this sense of we believe it is our sacred duty to lead good companies and to create meaningful work and to celebrate that.


Michael:
              We believe that if you're a leader, you'll know because you're leading people. Where are you leading them? Where are you going to choose to lead them? I had a mentor when I was a young buck in my 20s who stared at me and said, "Look, you're a leader. You just are. There are people following you. Question is, are you going to take up the responsibility? Are you going to take up that mantle? Where are you going to lead them? Because they're going to follow you wherever you go."


Kathryn:
               Even if it's into a corner.


Michael:
              Quite frankly, at that point in my life, that's where I was leading them.


Kathryn:
               Uh-hmm (affirmative).


Michael:
              It wasn't into their greatest contribution. If you're a leader, there are some of you who just, there are people who follow you and there are others that you can grow into becoming a powerful leader. You're going to move into places of leadership because of your skill, your knowledge, your competency at things, and you want to be able to build your leadership skills and grow your leadership skills so that you can help support the lifestyle and grow that lifestyle and the impact you want to have so that your legacy continues to be one that's positive, healthy, well thought of and leaves good things behind as opposed to one that just is empty and leaves pain and leaves hurt and leaves people wanting. You want to build into that and we want you to.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. So, those are the things that we're thinking about. In the midst of it too, there are great organizations out there, great communities for developing leadership skills. We have been part of some of them. Part of our take is that we really want to provide a place where we're helping leaders grow in their skills for leadership, but also in the other fundamentals of business, right? So, the core things like management and operations, marketing and sales, finance, managing your money, developing the culture of your company, making sure you have a crystal clear vision. So, we're talking about kind of these big rocks of business and really going deep on making sure you understand the fundamentals of those things so that you can be more successful as a leader.


Michael:
              Yeah, absolutely. So hey, if you're interested in this, if this sounds like something that you might want to be part of and you consider a little bit more and would like to get more information when we have it, go to Habovillage.com. There is a wait list there and get on the wait list. Sign up and get on the wait list. You'll get some really cool emails and some great content that's already going out. Some great thoughts and ideas that we'll contribute in these areas that Kathryn was just talking about. Then we're going to be releasing out over the next few weeks an email that talks about what this might look like. Then we're going to create something magical together. We have-


Kathryn:
               Yeah. We are now looking for a group of founders who were like, "You know what? I want to play. I think you're my people."


Michael:
              Yeah. We're looking for, I'm personally, I'm just going to say this out loud. I'm looking for a group of about 150 people as founders that can step in and start and we can figure out how to make this work financially in the beginning, but bringing a community of folks together that can grow because we have a mission that says, our goal is our BHAG, our big hairy audacious goal is to help 20,000 of you ... 10,000.


Kathryn:
               I was like, "Oh my gosh, it doubled."


Michael:
              I just doubled it. I just doubled it. 10,000.


Kathryn:
               It's like, "Dang, dude."


Michael:
              10,000 passion provision companies, to help 10,000 leaders build passion, provision companies with impacting at least 10 jobs each. We want to impact and help create in our culture not only 10,000 entrepreneur companies that you're thriving in as entrepreneur business leaders, but create 100,000 passionate provision jobs for those who aren't going to be, but you're giving away because you're leading. So, how about creating a business and a community where others have those jobs? They're going to help come be a part of your team and contribute to you building a passion provision company so that you can reach whatever BHAG is that you have.


Michael:
              So Habovillage.com, get on that wait list. Fill it out and then let's go forward together. That would be so cool to have you involved in that, especially if this whole message, this podcast resonates with you and the HaBO village podcast over all these episodes resonates with you what we're doing, what we're talking about.


Kathryn:
               Yeah.


Michael:
              Okay. So, that says we're going to wrap today. This has been really good on building community. You need to be in community. If you want to grow, you need to be in community. If you want to get over your limiting beliefs, it's one of the strategies is to be in a like-minded community of people with informed decisions and informed thoughts. Then just to say, let's go forward and how do I improve myself? So, that's it today. If you like this, we also want to encourage you to go over to iTunes, hit subscribe on the podcast. If you're a first time visitor, we love it and helps us reach more people in podcast land. We are really appreciative.


Kathryn:
               If you have questions, throw comments out there. Throw a comment. You go to the podcast page on HaBO Village and just ask questions.


Michael:
              We would love that.


Kathryn:
               Let us know what you're thinking.


Michael:
              W would love to respond to that. So, this is HaBO Village podcast where we build into passion provision leaders, building passion provision companies that are pursuing profit, purpose and legacy.


Kathryn:
               You almost got that out.


Michael:
              I almost did.


Kathryn:
               I know. You had to [inaudible 00:30:39] in front of it, but other than that, it was really beautiful, babe. Good job.


Michael:
              So, I'm Michael Redman.


Kathryn:
               I'm his snarky wife, Kathryn.


Michael:
              And, we look forward to hearing from you again and having you join us on the next podcast. Thanks. Have a great week.