iphone listening shutterstock_519216199

Listen to Podcasts

How to Keep a Healthy Mindset [Podcast]

Episode 81: Michael and Kathryn recover from a spilled cup of hot coffee and share thoughts and tips on how to keep a healthy mindset in life and at work. If you feel stuck or like your emotions have been getting the better of you lately, then this episode is for you!

peaceful woman sitting on desk


In This Episode You Will...

  • Discover what's happening chemically in your brain when you feel emotionally hijacked.
  • Find out how Michael and Kathryn deal with stressful situations.
  • Learn how to identify and overcome your negative behaviors.
“When you get hijacked emotionally, the question you want to ask yourself is: What value is being violated right now?"
– KATHRYN Redman

Take the Leadership Blindspot Quiz

 

References:
Moments with Kathryn (blog)
Wizard Academy

Mindset diagram

 

itunes logo   New Call-to-action

Ready to take a listen? Like what you hear? Make sure you become a subscriber to get the latest and greatest of our podcast episodes.

SHARE | | |


Michael:
              Hello everyone, and welcome to HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman.


Kathryn:
               And Kathryn Redman.


Michael:
              And this is the podcast where we work with you, small business leaders who want to grow a Passion and Provision company that's full of more profit, more purpose, and more legacy. Bam.


Kathryn:
               Bam. You did that.


Michael:
              I did that.


Kathryn:
               You nailed that.


Michael:
              I did that.


Kathryn:
               Wow, have you been practicing?


Michael:
              A little in my head.


Kathryn:
               Okay. That was very good.


Michael:
              In today's podcast we're going to talk about mindset. We were brainstorming other ideas, and then we sat down today to do this, and as I was readjusting the microphone, I poured an entire cup of coffee all over me.


Kathryn:
               You can imagine the slow motion. I can see it happening, I'm going across the table like ch, ch, ch, ch, ch, ch, ch. And I cannot stop it.


Michael:
              And so, I'm at work. We don't live far from home. I, Kathryn starts cleaning [crosstalk 00:00:51].


Kathryn:
               We don't live far from home, we don't live far from work either.


Michael:
              We don't live far from work. Oh, that says a lot about work. Hey, isn't that, maybe that's another podcast about us small business owners.


Michael:
              So, one of the things that just happens in life, and this is just a great example, is things happen that we do not expect, and we have some ability to respond to it. And we can let those things totally mess us up, or we can choose to adjust to them. And sometimes we feel like we have control over those emotions, and sometimes we don't.


Kathryn:
               That is so true.


Michael:
              And it is really important to realize that when things happen, and you observe your emotions, when things go wrong that you don't like, your emotions are a fantastic KPI. They're a fantastic key performance indicator.


Kathryn:
               Or a barometer.


Michael:
              Of what's going on in your heart, and how you're behaving, and how you have been continuing to exercise the ability to not go off the handle, or not fly into a deep depression, or anything like that. And you know there's obviously there's some outliers on those things, and some people need counseling, and help, and everything else, and we'll talk a little bit about that. But for the most part, this is your journey. Your inner game journey is being developed. And when life throws you a curve ball, when coffee falls all over your pants, and your shirt, and your shoes.


Kathryn:
               And your iPhone.


Michael:
              And your iPhone, you have a choice to adjust. And so, we're going to talk about that adjustment today, and walk through hopefully a couple of tips that are really good about understanding what's going on. And I think today would be a great time to talk about the triangle. And ...


Kathryn:
               Paradigms, values, beliefs.


Michael:
              Yes. Paradigms, values, beliefs, results.


Kathryn:
               Results.


Michael:
              Because I'm adding that fourth one in. I've just decided after the last few weeks of thinking about it, it needs to be in there.


Kathryn:
               Okay, now we're having a private discussion, but we will join you into it in just a second.


Michael:
              But they're listening. We're going to include that. So, we'll talk about those things. Sorry about that. I didn't mean to leave you off to the side. And we're going to talk about what those things are. Kathryn, what happens when, you wrote in your blog this last week, which I really love the comment. 13 feet under with a 12 foot straw, but in there you were talking about those moments where you're trying to find the bottom so you can push off and get back up. It was a great image for trying to find your center again when you've lost it.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, it's a phrase I use a lot when I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'll just, you know, people say, "How are you doing?" And I'll be like, "Well, I'm feeling 13 feet under with a 12 foot straw." So, the hope of getting to the surface when there's only a foot gap is there. Like you actually might make it, but even so, it's that there's stuff that's just over my head.


Kathryn:
               So, I used that analogy, and I was talking about just how critical it is for me to really grab ahold of my emotions. And you know what I'm going to be, I'm going to just be vulnerable for a second. Okay, gents, I'm sorry. But for those of us that are women, we have this whole hormonal thing that y'all don't have to wrestle with every freaking few weeks.


Michael:
              Whoa whoa whoa. I'll interject. We.


Kathryn:
               You have your own hormones, okay, it's true.


Michael:
              For all your men [crosstalk 00:04:03], and I'm sorry women, but us men have to wrestle with your hormones, too.


Kathryn:
               Oh, that is so harsh. Okay. So anyway, that's just a reality. And so, I mean we literally, we were laughing, we had a meeting with one of our partners yesterday in the hay company, and we sat down to meet. And Michael and he had been meeting already, and then I joined the meeting, and it was like, "How are you doing?" And I said, "Well, if I'm going to be honest, I'm feeling like the world is an overwhelming place. And I'm feeling like I'm being crushed under the weight of it. And if you look at me cross-eyed or argue with me today, I might cry. However, I know that none of that is true, and I'm going to be just fine." And what was so interesting was I said that out loud, and then I was fine.


Kathryn:
               It was like I was able to just own it and articulate it, but ultimately it was a choice to just say, you know what? Those are the feelings I have, but the feelings are not necessarily truth, and the feelings do not have to take control. So, I don't have to give into those.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               You know, I have my mantras, I have my things I say to myself, truth I speak. I have a lot of those things that I work through, because my mindset matters a ton for my ability to actually do what I need to do at work, and to lead well, and to be involved with people.


Michael:
              Yeah. Just to kind of add to what we were joking about a minute ago. This folks, this affects men and women. The hormone thing is beside the point. In many cases, it's a great example for Kathryn, and it's real for a lot of different women, but we all struggle with things. We all have a chemistry. We all have moments where we're off, and we're down, and we're in funks, and everything else. And one of the things that I was reminded about was a conversation we had a few years ago at the Wizard Academy, a place in Texas. So you know it's a place in Texas, for those of you who don't know, that is an unconventional nonprofit business school that does workshops. Really great stuff. And the guy who founded it is just really good with words, and he started calling it Wizard Academy because his first book that went bestseller was Wizard of Ads, because he was really good with ads.


Michael:
              Anyway, it was a conversation we were having there one day at Michael's wedding, and it was this great conversation about brain chemistry. And we were talking with this guy who was, had a lot of experience in it, and he talked about the fact that there is actually something in the brain that when there's conflict, when your emotions are all over, when there's an emotional hijack or limbic hijack in the brain, by actually stating what it is you're feeling and if there's a reason for it, stating the reason for it actually lets the brain off the hook. Because it's as if, there's a part of the brain that's waiting for it to be said out loud, because there's a part of your brain whether you know it or not, that actually isn't processing your internal thoughts. It processes what you hear.


Michael:
              So, that's one of the things that happens around who you hang out with, you grow like, the things you look at, and talk about, and all that kind of stuff. The information you take in. And it actually changes. And there's this loop that gets relieved neurologically when you articulate that, this is how I'm feeling. This is why, this is the value that was violated, this is what's going on. And it really can oftentimes release that hold that that emotion has on you. And when you're stuck, and your attitude's bad, and you're frustrated with the people around you, or you're frustrated because you just can't get the motivation to move forward, then you tend to think about those things.


Kathryn:
               Yeah.


Michael:
              So, that's just one thing that is really, that you were talking about that's a real useful tip. One of the other things that happens, let's talk about emotional hijack or a limbic hijack, because some people might not know that term. What is a limbic hijack?


Kathryn:
               Well, it's essentially when something happens and everything in your body reacts. It's kind of like your adrenaline just kicks in. For me I know I'm in a limbic hijack when I just suddenly feel super sick to my stomach.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               Like just "Oh no" kind of a feeling, and incredible anxiety, and just ...


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               And it really is your brain saying alert, alert, alert. Something is very, very wrong.


Michael:
              Well, and what happens in your brain is that your, all the logical thought is happening in the prefrontal cortex in the front of your forehead, in the front of your brain, and it's all logical, and it's clear, and emotions ... It's not that you're in an unhealthy environment, you're not ignoring the emotions, but they're not tossing you around like the waves might toss around a boat without an engine. Then all of a sudden that shuts down, the front part of your brain actually shuts down tremendously. And the back part of your brain, that's the brainstem, that's all fight or flight and response kicks in.


Michael:
              A lot of people probably heard about it, but it's important to talk about. Because as business leaders we are in a fight or flight response often, we have the opportunity to be thrown in there, and our mindset, our paradigm on the way we see things, the way we think, the way we've practiced ourselves to think, the way we've practiced to respond to certain things and events is super important. And how well we can control our thoughts, and how well we can control our body, and practicing that. Which probably leads us to talking about how do these things break down? Talk about that triangle that we were talking about earlier with the paradigm, values, beliefs.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. So, picture a triangle, we'll put it in the notes, but a triangle that the top part of the peak of the triangle is results. And then underneath that is beliefs and the next level down is values. And then the bottom is paradigm. Okay. So.


Michael:
              You did that really well. You threw that in. Way to integrate the fourth piece.


Kathryn:
               Thank you. You know what? I was listening at the beginning when you said that's what we were doing.


Michael:
              That's awesome.


Kathryn:
               And I'm here to help. Okay, so results, beliefs, values, paradigms.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               So, what is it about that that is important? So, the first thing is that the way that we know that things are not exactly the way that we want them to be or that things are needing to be changed is that we're not getting the results that we want to get. In this particular instance, we're talking about how we're responding, how we're interacting. The same would be true if you're spending a bunch of money on a marketing campaign and getting no ROI, right? The results are not delivering what it is that you want to see.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               So, perhaps you fancy yourself to be, or you are aspiring to be a very calm presence in your leadership, but you are seeing sort of repeated times where you are anything but that, right? So, the results of the way that you're interacting with people, like you get ramped up too quickly, whatever, you're not demonstrating who you want to become. So, the results are not working. Okay, so you can evaluate that. And a lot of times we just want to do that. We want to evaluate that, and we want to fix that behavior. What's the behavior? Let's fix it.


Michael:
              Right.


Kathryn:
               Right? So, then the next level down is beliefs. So, the beliefs are actually where the behavior comes out of.


Michael:
              Okay.


Kathryn:
               Okay. So, what is it that you believe about yourself, about your environment, about the world, about your employees? We've talked about even in this podcast, the mindset shift that I had to have about seeing employees as a gift to me and seeing them as something that, or people that are incredibly valuable, not just cogs in a wheel, not just there to meet my needs. So, your beliefs are what your behavior stem out of. So, identifying your belief system is the next piece.


Kathryn:
               Beneath your beliefs though, are these things called values.


Michael:
              Yes they are.


Kathryn:
               Yes they are. So, values are those things that whether you have identified them or not, you hold very deeply. They're the things that you get excited about, the things that you're passionate about, they're the things that most anger you. So, we will often say when you get hijacked emotionally, the question you want to be asking yourself is what value is being violated right now?


Michael:
              Yeah. And one of the things we do, and we use this all in coaching, in our leadership coaching a lot, these are all pieces and tools that we've seen in leadership development and coaching. And one of the things that is really helpful, there's a tool called the SDI tool.


Kathryn:
               Strength deployment inventory.


Michael:
              I think that's what it is.


Kathryn:
               I think that's what it is.


Michael:
              And we've been exposed to it over the last couple of years. What it does is it helps to codify the way you look at the world and the values, kind of what motivates you. And it doesn't itemize all your values, but it does help you do a value inventory. It helps you look at those things. And one of the key things that I took away from all of that tool and resource is that when we're upset, when we're frustrated, when we're tossed off our edge, a value has been violated.


Kathryn:
               Right.


Michael:
              And one of the questions that was a really great question for me to start learning to ask myself on a regular basis is something's not right. I am frustrated, sad, upset. I'm not at peace. What value, some value of mine was violated. What was it? Because it's not always easy to tell. I know that you did that, and I'm mad. Or I knocked over my coffee on myself. I'm mad. But it's like, okay, but what value was busted underneath there? What one was violated? And whether it's one that says I value self control, or I value having everything put together, or I value.


Kathryn:
               I value not having my clothes soaked.


Michael:
              I value, I really value that. Smelling like a coffee factory. Or I value honesty or integrity, and that value in this relationship was violated.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. For me, one of the things I deeply value is peace. So, conflict causes angst for me.


Michael:
              I appreciate that about you.


Kathryn:
               I know you do. And at times you wish that I would engage conflict a little more intentionally, because peace is a major value for me. So, I often have to go, okay, this is what's being violated. And even again, just being able to audible that to yourself, helps you identify this is what's happening and this is why. Because you have to realize as human beings, we all have values that motivate us, but they are not the same values.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               So, someone can step on your values without even meaning to, and the quicker you are to realize that that's what's happened and that that person may not have even had that intention, the more able you are then to reconcile that more quickly and get back to whatever state of being you need to be in. Which for me is peace.


Michael:
              If you have a dog, we have a dog, and this relates, go with me.


Kathryn:
               I looked at him a bit odd as you can imagine. We have a dog, so what?


Michael:
              If you have a dog one of the things that happens periodically with a dog is they'll get under your feet, and they'll lay there, and you'll accidentally step on their tail.


Kathryn:
               Yes.


Michael:
              Right. That happens when you have dogs. It doesn't happen, well, hopefully it doesn't happen often, but it does happen periodically. And back up, who comes to the office with us and is nine years old now?


Kathryn:
               Almost nine in October.


Michael:
              There's, in nine years of her being with us a lot.


Kathryn:
               24/7 minus vacations.


Michael:
              Right. And she, her tail's been stepped on. And when you step on her tail, she knows really quick.


Kathryn:
               She lets out a cry.


Michael:
              And it's a very weird [crosstalk 00:15:48]. Yeah, and she doesn't bark. She doesn't bite, but she yelps really loud and jumps. You were talking about stepping on values. And sometimes we are unaware that that value somebody else has is even exists, and it's like the tail that we didn't know was there.


Kathryn:
               So we stepped on their tail.


Michael:
              And we step on it, and what happens is we get this inflamed response from people. Now it happens when people step on our tail, we have an automatic inflamed response, because the value was stepped on. It's much like the tail. That's what's happening to us folks. It's like, Oh you just stepped on something that I had in my paradigm and I didn't resolve it. And a lot of times it's because we have an unhealthy place that we haven't worked on.


Kathryn:
               Now you just said paradigm, which was a bit leading. Right? So, we're talking about stepping on values.


Michael:
              And that was accidental.


Kathryn:
               But it is a good transition, because underneath the results, beliefs, values is this paradigm thing, right?


Michael:
              Yes.


Kathryn:
               And paradigms are really the grid, the worldview, the kind of the core assumptions you have about the way things are supposed to work. And I hate to break it to you, but not all of your paradigms are accurate.


Michael:
              What?


Kathryn:
               So, there are things you believe about yourself, there are things you believe about the world, there are things you believe about people that may not be completely 100% on target. But paradigms are not always easy to identify.


Michael:
              Here's a writer donor. Sometimes the people that are frustrating you the most are not somebody you want to get rid of in your organization. They are somebody you want to keep around, because they are helping you to spot and see the grid you have, the paradigm you have that's out of whack. It's not accurate. And they're really there, and the reason you're getting frustrated and everything else and they're frustrating is because you're not aligned with a healthy belief, a healthy pattern somewhere and it grinds on you. And that's not always the case, but sometimes it is.


Michael:
              And folks as leaders in Passion and Provision companies, now remember this is all gritted through, our paradigm here is Passion and Provision companies. There's an assumption that you want a Passion and Provision company, or you're checking this podcast out because you're thinking it might be interesting, and you're starting to wonder about it. And what you're looking for is your company to grow in a healthy way with a relative amount of peace. Even though it's challenging and hard and there's all that kind of stuff that does not go away, and it's growing profitably. So, you have this sense of fulfillment and joy and you like it as opposed to, you know it's gone too far over the edge when you're like, I hate this, I hate what I do. I hate going to work. I just want to fire everyone.


Kathryn:
               Including myself.


Michael:
              I want to close the company. I've had enough. It's sucking the life out of me. You find yourself saying any of those things, you've lost what the pieces and parts of a Passion and Provision company. And you're wanting to get back to that. And this grid work that we're talking about here is we're talking about the fact that if you want to have a Passion and Provision company, part of what you're doing as a leader is working on your inner game. You're working on those inner issues of yours so that you can actually have more grit, more self control, more maturity, and because of that you're not responding in negative ways that throw you off your game because of everything going around you. You're able to keep a center, and then you're able to help others in your organization grow and their performance grow. That continues to move you actually closer to step-by-step a greater Passion and Provision company.


Kathryn:
               Yeah.


Michael:
              And that's huge. Paradigm is something that you and I have talked about a lot for the last 25 years.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? It's incredibly important, because the assumptions that you make. So, one of the core assumptions that Passion and Provision comes against is that you either have to make a profit, or you stay small and don't ever grow your company, or you just kind of don't make a difference. Right. And the fact of the matter is there are hundreds and hundreds of businesses that close simply because the person at the helm was going after the money and lost essentially all of their relationships in the process, and got so discouraged, and so beat up that it wasn't worth it.


Michael:
              Or maybe they didn't lose all of them, but they lost a lot of them.


Kathryn:
               Yeah.


Michael:
              Okay. So, we had an oops in our B, our second stage.


Kathryn:
               It's like I wasn't quite feeling right. I'm like, what is wrong with it?


Michael:
              It's not beliefs, it's behaviors.


Kathryn:
               Yes.


Michael:
              And the way you were talking about it, I think is correct. So your results, what you're doing is as you're walking down the top of the pyramid, you identify that you're not getting the results you want. Which the first thing you need to start doing is, OK, what behaviors am I doing, and are we as an organization doing? Or if you're coaching any of your team, what behaviors are happening that are causing the results? And it's really helpful to have somebody else as a leader to help you from the outside and ask questions and coach. Coaching is incredible for clarity. We've talked about that a lot on this podcast, because I find that sometimes I'm not getting the results and I'm stuck. I don't know. If I knew I'd change it, and get better results, but I'm not. So, I need help figuring out what's going on. And the first thing I have to look at is, are you doing things that are.


Kathryn:
               Are you behaving in ways that are producing the results you don't want?


Michael:
              Yeah. And that's a fairly obvious thing. And sometimes it's just, Oh, I'm using the wrong tool. It's a behavior. If you move to the other tool, it's like those Phillips head screws, there's those Philips head screws that are both a Phillips, they have the cross, but you can also use a standard screwdriver on them, too, because one of the slots goes all the way through. I hate those screws. It's almost like they're misleading you, because the reality is if you have, I mean they're nice if you only have a standard and you need to do something, but the reality is those grooves are not deep enough. And in general you push in there and you slip them, and you either strip them or hit your knuckle or something like that. It's like they're misleading. It's false advertising in my opinion.


Michael:
              So, you know it's a behavior when you need a different tool. That was a little bit off. Paradigm. I want to say this about paradigms. As before, as we're continuing to move into wrapping this up. As we've just talked about paradigms, this is like the new way I'm talking about describing it. It's kind of a modification of what we've talked about over the years, Kathryn. And it is a paradigm does two different things, and you can have a life paradigm, but you can have like mini paradigms in different areas of your life, different subjects and stuff like that, right?


Kathryn:
               Sure.


Michael:
              And that paradigm, what it does I think is it organizes all of your values. So, it's an organizational structure on where your values go, which values come in, which values don't come in. So, it chooses those things. And sometimes to change your paradigm, you're changing your values. Folks, this is tough. I was coaching a leader recently, and he's going through some major transitions in his life. He's in his late thirties, is a very successful business guy. He's a great guy and a great friend. And he wants to grow and change through some places and it's just tough. And we were talking about the fact that you're going to have to shift some major paradigms. You have some major values and major assumptions about the way the world is organized that are going to have to shift. And it's painful, because you lean on those. We lean on those, and it gives us a great sense of confidence. It's like walking on the ground knowing that the ground is solid.


Kathryn:
               It's how you make sense of the world.


Michael:
              And then all of a sudden there's an earthquake. And all of a sudden what you thought was supposed to be solid, especially in a certain kind of earthquake, it turns to, the ground turns to jello. And just kind of can throw you off. And it can do that when we come into transition, and we all go through transition to grow. We've talked about that before in this.


Michael:
              So, a paradigm is an organizational structure. It's the way we organize our beliefs, which beliefs we have, or values, which values we have, where they go. And it also, if you imagine them like in a track, a horizontal track and they slide in vertically, and there's gaps in between them, kind of like fences. It's like there's all these boards on your fence, and some of the gaps are real small, and some of the gaps are big. Well, what happens is those values go in and that paradigm that holds those values also not only says these are the values you're going to have and look at, but it also shows you an image of the world and it shows you some things, but it doesn't show you others.


Michael:
              It actually says focus on these things of the world, and ignore these things of the world. And sometimes the paradigm we have those slots and everything can create a blind spot. And so, when we have a paradigm that's a healthy paradigm such as, I'm only looking for, I'm a fairly safe, confident person, I'm only looking for things that are really truly dangerous to me. I feel fine in a room until a tiger comes in, and then I feel, then we kick into fight or flight and figure out what to do. But if for instance, you have a fear of driving over a bridge, you work in the city and you live on the other side of the bridge, nobody's died on the Golden Gate Bridge from just driving across it. Well, that's not true. There's been some accidents, but nobody has just randomly fallen off the Golden Gate Bridge.


Kathryn:
               Right.


Michael:
              I mean, it's a really safe place. Millions of people cross it, and nothing happens. But some people are so nervous about bridges and height, that it just causes a response. And so, your goal is to have a paradigm that allows you to say, this is important, this isn't. Your emotions need to be in high alert here. They don't need to be in high alert here. And so, when you have this model of going, I'm going to look at results, and then I'm going to ask what kind of behaviors. And then behind the behaviors I'm going to ask, I'm doing this behavior, but it's hard to change what's going on, why am I holding onto it so much? There's a value underneath it. And underneath that value is an organizational structure called a paradigm. And those paradigms can actually cause you to see the way your brain works, and the way life has come along.


Michael:
              And you have to, if you really want to grow as a leader, this mindset process is, how do I have a way of attacking that, evaluating that? And this pyramid I believe is a really good tool. It's not the only tool, but it's a really good tool to start to look at those things.


Kathryn:
               Yep. So, what are a couple of practical tips? I mean we've scattered a couple through, but just to summarize as we land the plane here, what are some practical tips for readjusting your mindset? Especially when you get hijacked, when you wake up in the morning and you feel like you can't even face your day, or when some conflict comes in, or something happens. What are just some tips and tricks for readjusting?


Michael:
              Yeah, I think one thing that comes to mind right now is that you need to realize that there's two different approaches you're going to have to these hijacks, to events that happen during the day, and your mindset so that you can keep going and be optimistic. And one is realizing that there is an in the moment response that you need to have. And so, when you start to see certain things in your life that are causing responses that you don't like, or are causing responses or results in your team and your company that you don't think are healthy or valuable, then start just go, "Okay, I have that. So I need to do a little bit of work, and dig in, and understand it." So, that's kind of a, my first thought is this thing happens. I need to think really fast. How do I want to respond?


Michael:
              When we don't have the ability to respond at that moment, we need to be identifying that post the event and going, what is it that I need to practice and work on so that I don't respond like that when something, and maybe it's as simple as that thing. When a drink or a cup spills over and you don't jump. I had a $500 microphone in my hand that if I dropped, we could've lost that. I didn't burn myself with the coffee, so I just kept working on the microphone, because I was moving the microphone. That worked. It worked great, and it didn't throw my emotions off, which was nice.


Michael:
              But the other thing I'm thinking as a tip is, so think about your thoughts right there. If you can grab ahold of them immediately, be thinking and be aware of your thoughts. So when these moments happen, you can grab ahold of the fast. Second, if you can't, and they take over, then take a moment, 20 minutes later, an hour later, step away, and reevaluate what's going on and try and make a game plan of, "Okay, what's the opposite and what can I do to change that?"


Michael:
              But I think there's a third, because those are in the moments. The third is, and this is, I don't think this podcast is really completely about this, but it's important to say, is getting some outside help to coach and to reflect. Whether it's a really good friend that you trust, somebody with informed, another informed leader, or a business coach, leadership coach, maybe even a counselor to reflect back on, "Okay, I'm stuck here. I can't figure out how to get through this. Can you help me dig a little deeper and figure out the behaviors and the values that are going on here?"


Kathryn:
               Yeah. So for me, I would just add that one of the things that I find incredibly valuable when I'm really struggling is going to somebody that I trust and saying, "Okay, this is how I'm feeling. Tell me what's true."


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               Right. So, just to be reminded by somebody outside of my own head.


Michael:
              You do that well, too.


Kathryn:
               Because that's, you know, I know that I can get stuck in my head and it can begin to swirl, and if I don't state it out loud, then it can trap me.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Kathryn:
               Right. So, I will, I'll do that with you. I'll go to a friend, but tell me what's true. Remind me what's true.


Michael:
              Right.


Kathryn:
               Right. So, I definitely take advantage of that, because I am aware of the confusion that can happen in my own mind if I just stay in my own mind. The other thing that I do, especially when there's time to reflect is I journal. Because again, for my mind, for my brain, for my chemistry, whatever it is, to see on paper and to have it written on paper is very different than thinking. It's like it changes it. It allows me to actually see it in black and white and go, "Oh well that's stupid. Like Oh well that's not true. Or Oh well, Oh, Oh dear." So, you know a journal that you know no one is ever going to read as a good gift to give yourself.


Michael:
              Well, and you and I both journal but you, it is a primary tool for you.


Kathryn:
               It's come and gone over the years. But.


Michael:
              But it's really powerful.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, it's very valuable.


Michael:
              I know it's powerful for organizing your thoughts. I'm an extreme verbal processor. I talk to myself.


Kathryn:
               I am not. I talk to paper.


Michael:
              Because I do that and I can process through a lot of stuff that way, and that's just really helpful. There's different ways of doing this. This is to just illustrate folks, there's different ways of processing, but you have to process. And there requires a humility and a willingness to admit these are my strengths and these are my weaknesses. You don't underestimate how good you are in a certain area and how competent you are, you don't overestimate. That's humility.


Kathryn:
               Yep. Confidence properly placed.


Michael:
              Exactly. And we just want to encourage you on this journey, because we realize that for all of us there are big things that throw off our mindsets, big events that seem to last days, weeks, months, maybe a financial situation or a market situation like the Great Recession or who knows what. And then there's moments where you just like, "Dagnabbit I just knocked over a cup of coffee, and I just threw off our morning by an hour, and I don't have the time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."


Kathryn:
               Yep.


Michael:
              And we just want you to be successful. We want the best for you. We want you to see you grow a Passion and Provision company, and this is a critical part. So, that's it for today. Thank you so much for joining us. We would love it if you found this valuable to hit subscribe in iTunes, that is super valuable to us. Then maybe tell a friend, or two, or 20 about this podcast, because we want to continue to reach out. We have a goal to reach 10,000 leaders with Passion and Provision message, and help equip them so they can do it.


Michael:
              And this last year we were able to work with Pablo who actually said that he was ready to give up his business, and it was working through some of these techniques towards a Passion and Provision company that helped regain that mindset for him, and readjust some things. And actually over the last nine months has been incredibly helpful for him, and he's staying in the game. We're fighting against the business failure rate, and he has more hope and more joining his business because it was a game changer. And we want that for you. So, we're excited and we just want to say thank you for joining us today on the HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman, and we hope you have a great week. Bye bye.


Kathryn:
               Bye.