Michael: Hello everyone and welcome to the HaBO Village Podcast. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And we are here to help you grow a passion provision company full of more profit and joy, or, as we're starting to say more often, more profit, more purpose, and a greater legacy. We're pretty excited about that. And the reason we tweaked that is because we're trying to figure out how to tweak it. It's going on the cover of our new book.
Michael: We've been working on a book, and we haven't told anybody in the podcast land, I don't think we've mentioned it.
Kathryn: We might've mentioned it, but we haven't really mentioned it.
Michael: So, just so you know, today we're going to talk about, this is a sidetrack, so I want to tell them what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about, today, about limiting beliefs and how we get in the way of growing our companies and ourselves and being successful and having the life we want.
Michael: And it's all part of knowing you. Knowing yourself is an incredible part of growing your company and achieving the dreams you want. So, we're going to talk about that. But just as a side note real quick, because I already let the cat out of the bag, we started a book, and we started working on this a couple of years ago. And I think we're going to need to do a podcast on this, so to talk about the process, but we've come to the conclusion that writing a book is actually really important for us to tell our story.
Michael: And then second, it's really important, an important and useful tool for growing your business, especially when you're doing consulting or training or anything like that. So there's all kinds of value in having a book. We started the process, we're in the middle of that process.
Kathryn: And we're going to tell you a lot more about it another time.
Michael: But the book's going to come out in March, April, and we're really excited about it. And the title, since I sort of started, should we tell them the title?
Michael: No, let's not.
Kathryn: Let's not. Let's wait.
Michael: Let's wait.
Kathryn: Let's wait.
Michael: And then to do a podcast on the book.
Kathryn: He got into this because we had to subtitle the book, right? And the subtitle ended up involving the words profit, purpose, and legacy.
Kathryn: So that's all they need to know.
Michael: I feel like I'm being mean now, but that's all we're going to do.
Kathryn: You know what? Another day.
Michael: We're going to create an open loop. So, let's jump into our subject of limiting beliefs. Why we talked about this, why are we even talking about this subject today, Kathryn?
Kathryn: So, we spent the last five days, up until last Monday, in Toronto, for a big conference called Tribe Live. Tribe Live 2019.
Michael: Tribe Live. Stu McLaren's company.
Kathryn: Yep. So Tribe is an organization that helps people who have online businesses to create membership sites for current revenue, all that kind of fun stuff. So, room full of a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of sort of-
Michael: A lot of really neat, smart people.
Kathryn: Yeah, super. Across multiple industries. Just the amazing part of niches. We learned that there's actually a niche and money to be made for helping people paint wooden door hangers.
Kathryn: Wooden door hangers. So think, I don't know, I have maybe one of these that I hang out that's like a sled.
Michael: Like a Christmas wreath thing.
Kathryn: Yeah, like a-
Michael: It hangs on your door.
Kathryn: Hangs on your door, but mine happens to be a sled. So, okay, I bought that. It's cute. It's crafty. But the idea that there's a woman who's got an online membership where she teaches people how to paint wooden door hangers and makes money.
Michael: And a lot of those people, there was over 2,000 people on her list that signed up for her course, or her membership, and monthly write her a check. Folks, America is a great place.
Kathryn: Internationally, there's people. There's people from across the world.
Michael: So much opportunity everywhere. So, we were there, and one of the things that kept coming up that's really critical is that we are ... And Kathryn and I talk about this a lot, is, how do we get in our own way? Look, more often than not, the problems we're having in our companies start with us as leaders.
Michael: Water runs downhill. We say things like that. We talk about those functions of just, you know what? Your leadership, your success, how you see things is radically impacted by the way you see the world, and our own issues and challenges, and things like that.
Michael: And we've got a paradigm or a concept that we're going to talk about today that we use in leadership coaching, and that really is powerful and some really great thoughts and ideas behind it that we think is going to be really helpful. So let's jump in to the subject. So first of all, when you're running into a place where you're stuck, right? You feel like you're hitting a wall in your company and your own personal development or anything like that. It's like you're running into this place.
Michael: You may be in a place, what we call transition. You may be in a transition spot in your life, and most of us go through, the average adult goes through nine to 12 transitions in their adult life.
Kathryn: Close enough.
Michael: And in your business, you may even go through more because of having a business, and everything. And your business goes through transitions, also. So your leadership style and your own personal development is going through transitions as a person, as you're growing and maturing, hopefully you're growing and maturing.
Michael: If you're listening to this podcast, I believe you're a higher percentage of people who are growing, because you care about it, and you're listening to and studying. But then you're thinking about that, right?
Kathryn: Yeah. And that whole, that really well known saying of, you know, what got you here won't get you there. Right? So as you're going through transition, it's always about identifying places where you have gaps and figuring out, okay, what comes next? How do I grow to the point where I can take this to the next step?
Kathryn: So in the middle of that, one of the things that happens is the identification of what is called limiting beliefs. So the things that you actually believe, or the tapes that are playing in your head that aren't actually true.
Kathryn: Or maybe an overstatement of something. So Michael referenced that we have this paradigm. So think of a simple triangle.
Michael: And this is what we use when we're coaching leaders.
Kathryn: Coaching leaders.
Kathryn: Yep. Simple triangle. And it's divided into thirds. Top third is behavior. Okay? A lot of times, people just are trying to fix behaviors, right?
Michael: Kind of like the tip of an iceberg.
Kathryn: Tip of the iceberg, right. It's the, "I'm not good at conflict. I don't want to have a conversation that's hard because I don't like it. You know? I just, I don't like it. I just, it makes me uncomfortable and it keeps me awake at night." And it's just-
Michael: So, we're talking about behaviors right now.
Michael: So we're talking about the behavior of avoiding conflict.
Kathryn: Yes. So the behavior is simply, I'm avoiding conflict. But what we understand and realize is that there are two other levels beneath that behavior. The second tier down is values, right? So behavior is what you do. Values is what you believe. These are your, well, what you ...
Michael: We value something. It's something that's important to us. And so usually, when we go into conflict, we have a value that has been violated.
Michael: So it is a part of our core belief system. Then we have these values and everything else that are things that I value. Look, I value you listening to what I'm doing and we're having conflict and I don't know how to deal with that. So I'm going to leave. Where I value all those different types of things, that's where conflict happens. When a violation of your values occurs. That happens in marriage, it happens in work, it happens in your leadership, stuff like that. So, that sound good?
Kathryn: Yeah. So, behavior at the top, values in the middle, but underlying all of that is this thing we call paradigms, right? So paradigms are like, it's your worldview. It's the way you see the world. It's the way you grid and interpret everything coming at you.
Michael: It organizes your values, and it organizes, then, ultimately, leads to your behaviors. So it's underneath the water. It's deep underneath the water. It's the bottom of that iceberg. And so many people talk about icebergs as two pieces, the top that's coming out and the bottom, and this is really kind of a three piece. It's like those values sit right below the surface, and the paradigms sit much deeper below, and they are controlling.
Michael: They are the things that ... They're subconscious, usually. They're running around in the back of your mind. They are just the structure in which you see it and they're influenced by what you've learned, your environment you grew up, in the society you grew up in, the family culture you grew up in, all that kind of stuff. And so, your paradigm, and most of you have probably heard about paradigms. The conversation of paradigms has been around a long time.
Michael: I remember the very first video that I saw that was put together by a really high end consulting firm that was proprietary for a long time. I don't know if it's floating around out there now and has been released to the public, but it was a phenomenal video that showed you things, and what it did is, it showed a whole bunch of different images, and some of them were playing cards. And then you ask people, what do you see?
Michael: And your paradigm says, "I saw one thing." But then when you go back and actually watch the video and stop the frames, then what you realize is you saw something else. It's a little like the gorilla dance thing.
Michael: Right? Where you're saying, somebody says, "Would you watch the basketballs and count how many times the white people change?"
Kathryn: The white team passes it back and forth. The white people. The white team.
Michael: Yeah, white team. The white team, which are wearing white shirts.
Michael: And then this gorilla walks through the scene. And so many people don't ever see the gorilla.
Kathryn: I never see the gorilla. I mean, I have to really pay attention.
Michael: Well, and that's funny, because you know the gorilla is there, now.
Kathryn: I know. I do know.
Michael: So paradigms, that's a great example, because when we have a paradigm, our brain is focusing on those things that are important and the structure and order of our values and the way we see the world. So we miss other things. We don't see things.
Kathryn: So ...
Michael: So we have behaviors, values, and ...
Michael: And paradigms. And our limiting beliefs are stopping us. And we're going, "Okay, why do I keep hitting this wall? Why can't I grow my company past $1 million?" Or maybe you're saying, "Why can't I grow my company past $200,000?" Or $500,000, or $10 million.
Michael: There's actually some different things in there that the structure and the way you need to look at the world, the paradigm needs to shift, the way you think about things. Expectations lives down there in paradigms. And so, we want to make sure that you're saying, "Okay, here's a model to start looking at it."
Michael: First and foremost, you need to identify your behaviors that you don't like. The behaviors that are challenging. And this is where we start to go, as a leader, if you're going to grow, you have to become more self aware.
Michael: Talk to us about being self aware.
Kathryn: So, sometimes, when you look at leadership and leadership training, and we talk about this in our course that we have, and we'll talk about it in the book, but there are a couple of different key elements to leadership. And a lot of times, what you're looking at is just the outward stuff. Are you a good leader? Do you communicate well? Do you have the tasks all lined out? Are you making good decisions? Are you a strategist?
Kathryn: So the skills of leadership that are external, and again, those things are what's visible, right? So if you go back to icebergs, those are the above the surface, the behaviors of a leader. But underneath all of that is the inner stuff that's happening, who you are as a leader. And if you're not working on and creating a deeper and deeper sense of self awareness, of understanding who you are, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, and figuring out how to work on those weaknesses, and so on and so forth, then ultimately, it will limit how successful you can be at the stuff that people are watching.
Kathryn: So when we think about leadership development, we're thinking not just about the outer tasks of leadership, but the inner game of leadership. What is it that's happening inside of you? So when a behavior happens, employee comes in, something happens, and you see yourself responding in a way that, looking back, you go, "I could have done that differently."
Kathryn: One of the questions to ask is, is really, why did I respond that way? What happened in me? Especially if you've gotten angry, or you just kind of shut down and you just want to block that person out of your life. What's actually happening in your inner person that's causing that behavior?
Michael: Yeah, so if we're looking at this, you have to be able to be aware of your own behavior and what needs to happen and what doesn't. And you need to know what gets in the way of, I don't like this part of it, but how important is it that I work on it? I have this habit, or I have, or this thing is happening around, people around me, and then I get frustrated. But am I getting frustrated for no good reason, or am I getting frustrated for a good reason?
Michael: We use the circle leadership model where you can see development, and there's five major categories. We've talked about that with 18 different behaviors. Some of those are relational behaviors. Half of those are relational behaviors, and half of those are external business tasks. And so those are all those things.
Michael: If you're not growing in those areas, that's a great tool to start saying what behaviors, as opposed to going, "Hey, what behaviors do you not like? As a leader of a company that's growing and looking for more profit purpose and legacy, and you're writing your legacy today, then how do I choose those?"
Michael: Well, this is a great list. It's really nice when you have a list of 18 behaviors, competencies, and you can go, "Yeah, I'm not doing great at that." And those group into five major categories. You go, "I need to grow in my ability to be strategic," or, "I need to grow in my ability to be system-oriented," or, "I need to grow in my ability to be relational with my team and the people I lead."
Michael: Well, okay, so you start looking at, what are the behaviors? You can break those down with this circle list. We have it on our blog, I believe, and we'll have some references on the show notes page, but this gives us this list of going, "Okay, at least I can start here," and go, "This is what's getting in my way at work." And I guarantee you, if it's getting in your way at work, it's probably getting in your way at home or in your personal life. These things don't just apply to work. They apply everywhere.
Kathryn: Absolutely. So Michael, can you give us an example personally, I'm going to put you on the spot, of a limiting belief that you've had to come up against?
Michael: I think she has something in mind.
Kathryn: Hmm. So, an example of a limiting belief that really got down to sort of a paradigm, the way you saw the world, that you had to shift in order to move forward.
Michael: Yeah, several, actually. We didn't plan this ahead of time.
Kathryn: See how mean I am? I'm his wife. It happens.
Michael: I'm going to share something out of my faith, out of our faith, that was pretty impactful for me. I really believed that work was a punishment. I used to believe that work was something that you just kind of, like, it was because we live in a sucky world, and if everything was great and nothing had ever gone wrong in the world, and the world was perfect, we wouldn't have to work.
Kathryn: It would be paradise, we'd just be drinking sangria on the beach.
Michael: It's just this weird projection idea of heaven and stuff that I got when I was a kid, that was like, "Okay, this is it. And work is a punishment, and work's just something you've got to do. And if you don't do it, you don't eat. You don't have a house, you live in poverty." And I'm not saying that barring any political stuff.
Michael: So I remember the day. I was having this conversation with a small group of business leaders, and-
Kathryn: Wait, I'm going to interrupt you one second.
Kathryn: One of the reasons you had that limiting belief is because you'd actually had a conversation with your dad when you were eight, and your dad basically just said, "You know what? This is just what you have to do. Suck it up." Right?
Michael: So yeah, I was in fifth grade.
Kathryn: He was like, "There's got to be more." No, there really isn't, son. There's nothing more.
Michael: I really thought that there was more to life. I really thought. I kind of had this gut feeling that they're like, you should not be as miserable. Even if you're going to work. There should be things you could do, that resonated with me is this whole idea that you were created to do certain things. There are certain great works for you, I believe, that are set out, and you're destined to go about if you can pursue those and go after those. It's your responsibility to pursue those and do those.
Michael: But there's things that only you can do. There's things that, you're part of community, part of your family, part of life, that you're supposed to do, and that when you do those things, you have passion. Passion isn't something you chase. You chase the things that are built for you and they excite you. And that excitement and that fulfillment is what we call passion.
Kathryn: Yeah. And so your dad basically said that doesn't exist.
Michael: And so, my dad said it didn't exist. And unfortunately, my father, we're talking about this a little bit in the book, but he didn't believe it. He lived a life of regret, of deep regret. And it was really sad. It really is still sad, because he still lives that life of regret. And it's really tough, because he said, "You don't believe that."
Michael: Well, okay, what you're setting up is, this belief I had, this value I had, affected the behaviors of how easy it was or how hard it was for me to work. And even though I was working and trudging through and trying to make things happen as an entrepreneur, I was getting stuck regularly. And part of my goal was, I was chasing, at one point, the four hour work week.
Michael: I had this idea early on before that book was even there that, if you can do everything, you can become rich early. You'd only have to work two or three hours a week, or four hours a week, and it'd be great. It'd be awesome.
Kathryn: Bachelor millionaire, baby. Bachelor millionaire.
Michael: Yeah, isn't that weird? My Sunday school teacher asked me one day, because my mom put me in a suit when I was four years old and sent me to Sunday school on Sunday morning, and she asked me why I was dressed up, and evidently, the answer I gave her was, "Some day, I want to be a bachelor millionaire. I'm practicing to be a bachelor millionaire." Where does a four year old get that?
Michael: But you start seeing, okay, these behaviors, I was being sabotaged in a lot of different business endeavors, trying to do stuff, and I was starting to break through after we got married in my late twenties, but it was still rough, and I still had to do a lot of work trying to uncover, okay, the behaviors that I'm doing, they're not producing the results I want.
Michael: That's the thing above behaviors is results. It's kind of sitting above that whole thing. Are you getting the results you want? No. Then maybe the things you're doing aren't right. Okay, well if the things I'm doing aren't right, but I think they're right, then where are they coming from? They're coming from a value I have, well, or a belief I have.
Michael: And then, if I have a certain belief that's just cranking around inside of me, and it was a long time before I discovered that that connection between what my dad told me when I was young to that group of businessmen I was with, and we were doing a Bible study one day, and it just occurred to me that I believed that I thought work was a curse.
Michael: And when I realized work was actually a blessing, but the type of work we did, when it was toil instead of labor, labor was a gift. It was a blessing. It was a good thing. But to have meaningful work, you know, we have this quote that we use, that Jim Collins said last year in a speech, to have a good life, he believes you have to have a meaningful life, and to have a meaningful life, it needs to include meaningful work.
Michael: So, ergo, meaningful work leads to a great life. And I had not caught that. So my values, I didn't value work. I didn't think work could be valuable. As I started shifting and changing, I started realizing that my values needed to shift and the way I saw things. Why did I believe that value? Well, there were certain many things that happened, and one of them was my occurrence with my dad, and another was, I just didn't see that there were two kinds of work.
Michael: That was a paradigm. Believing at that core level that there was only one kind of work and it was always going to be toil was a huge paradigm shift for me.
Kathryn: Yeah, that's a great example. Thank you for sharing.
Michael: Was that the one you were thinking of?
Kathryn: No, but that's totally okay. All right, so, that's kind of the picture, is, what is it that's underneath everything that's driving how you behave, in how you lead your company? Because we know that your desire is to ... We're assuming that you're wanting to grow your company. You have dreams of where you want to go in the future. But many of us, as leaders, we run into stuff, and it's like, "Oh my gosh, this mountain again. I just keep going around the same mountain. What's going on here?"
Kathryn: And sometimes that's just a deepening of skills, and that's okay. But sometimes, it's you're just running into a limiting belief. And as we're at this conference, one of the things that's just real true for entrepreneurs, for business owners, is the mindset that you have is really, really important.
Michael: So, all of a sudden, I feel like I should ask you. Because all of the sudden I'm like, how did you get out of not answering that question?
Kathryn: I thought I got away with it. I knew you were going to.
Michael: You did not. So, almost got away with it. All right. So, I want to hear, what do you think is a limiting belief for you? What was one of those paradigm shifts, or stuff that ... I'm not even sure how you asked the question.
Kathryn: Yeah. Yeah, where was the paradigm that had to be shifted?
Kathryn: So, there are a ton for me, but I'm going to go with something that actually happened even just in the last three or four years for me. So, one of the things that we believe is that it is a privilege to have employees. It is a privilege to have employees. The fact that we get to create meaningful work for people who we care about, and they get to provide for their families and contribute to the community, because we created jobs, right? So that is an incredible value.
Kathryn: But there was a period of time where I was just really struggling with just employees. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm struggling. And payday would come, and I'd be like, "I can't believe I have to pay people. I don't want to pay people. I want to keep the money. There's not enough anyway." You know, those seasons that you go through.
Kathryn: So, I had just a really powerful moment of clarity. Several years ago, I was sitting and just processing and thinking and thinking about payroll, and is payroll ever going to be an easy thing for me? I don't want to, I don't want to really send payroll.
Michael: Well, you're not the only one out there, too. I don't know how many people listen to our podcast that don't have employees, but we know a lot of people, we have a lot of friends, that want to be solopreneurs.
Kathryn: Yeah. Because they don't want to deal with employees, all that hassle.
Michael: Like, "I don't want to have employees." Or the other thing they do is, and I heard recently, somebody saying, "I don't have employees." We heard it again last week. "I don't have employees." Oh, so you do everything yourself? "Oh no, I have some contractors." Okay.
Kathryn: So you still have to build a team.
Michael: So, you still have a team, and you still have to exhibit leadership, and you still-
Kathryn: And you still have to pay them.
Michael: And you still have to deal with paying. And you still have to do with finding the right people and keeping good people engaged with you.
Kathryn: So, needless to say, I was really struggling with just being grateful, I guess, for my employees. I just had this moment of breakthrough, of just, gosh, it really is an incredible privilege to create jobs and to be able to pay people and to be part of the economic engine that keeps this country alive. That's actually a privilege.
Kathryn: And so, I had that moment of just, "Whoa, I have to move into a place of gratitude and get out of this resentment." So I made the decision, this is a couple, three years ago, that every time I handed out paychecks, I would thank my employees for the privilege of paying them.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn: And that was a paradigm shift for me. It was limiting for me, because it was stopping me from this gratitude place, and also created a little resentment. Right? So, to be able to break through that, and it changed how I interact with my people, with my people. Because I love my people.
Kathryn: So, now, it's almost kind of a standing joke that I'll hand them a paycheck, and be like, "Thank you for the privilege of paying you today." And they'll say, "Well, thank you for the privilege of working with you." Sometimes they say it before I hand the paycheck off. It's just kind of funny.
Kathryn: So it's become kind of a mantra for me, but it's also because I have to continuously, always remind myself what an incredible privilege it is to create meaningful work for people.
Michael: Okay. There's a couple of things that just occurred to me here in the midst of this, and one of them is that idea that there's a deep sense of a theme of value, of gratitude, that you picked up. You had a value of gratitude before this, but it was interesting how it didn't cross over into this area.
Kathryn: It didn't.
Michael: And so, because I would think I would have described you before you did all this as a grateful person, somebody who practice gratitude. But this was a big shift for you. I'll tell you what, it was really nice for me, because it was, that moment became way less stressful every two weeks. And even though it's hard, it doesn't take away the financial hard parts of it, but it was better.
Kathryn: And then you get a day like today, where you have fraudulent people stealing checks from your bank and then you're like, "Oh gosh, cash. That's fun."
Michael: She came into the studio today dealing with somebody who had a vendor who said they didn't get paid. And what had happened is the check had gotten stolen and forged in their own name, and it was a-
Kathryn: Almost $6,000 check.
Michael: Yeah, this is crazy. So that was kind of, today is like ... These things happen in business, and you have to figure out how to deal with them. And you never know what's going to happen. But it occurs to me, a lot of the people listening today are probably saying, "I have at least one or two employees that I'm really struggling with, who don't ever seem grateful."
Michael: And part of what has happened, and you were just saying it, is sometimes, they say, "Thank you for the privilege of working for you," before you ever get it out of your mouth. I know that it's all genuine, but folks, if you want to train your employees to be more thankful, be more thankful.
Michael: Because what she just said is really, really powerful. We have people on our staff. We have nobody on our staff that is a bad apple at this moment. We have nobody on our staff that is just a drag on the team. That said, wouldn't it be great if you had employees who said, who actually said to you on a regular basis, "Thank you for the privilege of working for you?"
Michael: We have that, because of what's happened. And I don't think it's just a joke. I think they're absolutely sincere in the midst of all the teasing and goofing around.
Kathryn: Yeah, I think they are, too. And I think part of the deal for me is to realize that there's this sense of creating meaningful work, and you know what? They could leave, they could get a job somewhere else. So for me to be like, "Well, I'm just paying you what you deserve, because that's what, I mean, you work for me." I just have to laugh. I'm going to pick on my brother and he will maybe never listen to this, so it'll be okay. And if he does, he's just going to have to forgive me and get over it, or forget it, which he does that, too.
Kathryn: So he has a hard time with verbal affirmation. He just is like, "Seriously?" And he's the head of a very large organization. And he's like, "Why should I have to tell them they're doing good work? I pay them. So it's like, the paycheck should be enough. I should never have to tell them they're wonderful." And I'm just like, "Seriously? You are missing out on the opportunity of really blessing your people, because you're trading dollars for time with them." And it's like, get a grip.
Kathryn: So anyway, I know there are other people out there. It's like, that's just touchy feely garbage. That's just crap. Nobody needs that. It's like [inaudible 00:27:46].
Michael: And when you encourage and reinforce the appreciation, there is proven, there's research on top of research that proves that it actually improves their productivity, and, which means it improves their actual cash value to you, or relational value, whatever currency your company trades in.
Michael: If you're a nonprofit, there is a bottom line that you have, and it actually improves their participation in that bottom line, which makes your company more effective, more efficient after your mission and your vision. So those are really cool. So, that was a big deal.
Kathryn: So now that we're through those, so let's, as we start to kind of wind down, let's talk about, so, okay. Kathryn, you're telling me that I have limiting beliefs, right? You're telling me that I need to identify those. How do you do that? What are the steps that you need to take to make sure that you're growing in your own self awareness and beginning to kind of come across those things?
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Today we're going to leave you with three different things. One is, you have to identify and own them. So kind of, the number one is a combo, identify and own. So you need to identify. Let's start with the behaviors, and then you have to figure out, or the results, figure out what results you don't like and then identify the behaviors that you're participating in that are contributing to that, and then you own them.
Michael: Now, that's easier said than done. A lot of times, you know, come on, all of you listening right now, you know that there are certain results that you have because you are intelligent people. You're listening to a podcast about growing a passion and provision company. You want to try and grow as a person. Odds are, you people, I know you. You want to grow.
Kathryn: You're our people.
Michael: So you already have, right on top of your mind, one or two, or maybe even three, behaviors that you have. You go, "I'm not getting results in this area. I know that I struggle with certain behaviors, and I can identify some, but I know that there's some other things I'm having trouble putting my finger on." So those that you've identified, you've said, "Yes, that's it," and "Yes, I have a challenge there and I need to grow."
Michael: So you've owned those. But then there's other things that you're not quite sure how to put your finger on, and is that really a problem? And you need two things, I think, that are going to be helpful tools. The first tool is, you need some kind of a list, like we were talking about, with the circle leadership chart of 18 behaviors that you can be. Competencies, five different categories.
Michael: Looking at that list, and in the bottom of the circle, you can see another 11 that are actually unhealthy. So unhealthy ones that you want to shrink, behaviors, and 18 healthy that you want to increase. So now, you've got a great list that allows you to be thoughtful and introspective about, and go, "Okay, I can see that."
Michael: And I can tell you that those 18 on top and 11 on the bottom directly relate to either your business is financially thriving or not. If you've got leaders that are that, that you can evaluate them later. Evaluating yourself. So you need something kind of like a mirror to look at yourself. The other thing that really helps is, if you really want to grow, and you want to go through this process of identifying results, behaviors, values, paradigm, getting a coach.
Michael: We do, Kathryn and I actually do leadership development coaching, and we don't do a lot of it, with our schedule. There's just not a lot of time. But we do it, we believe in it. We are continuing to go, "Okay, how do we provide those services and options for you if you can't find them?" So we have people we can refer out to at times, if you're interested, and then we'll be developing those. So the list-
Kathryn: Yeah. So we talk about just the reality of, nobody gets to clarity alone, right? So having a mentor, having a coach, having somebody who can ask you questions that you're not asking yourself and help uncover those things is really, really helpful.
Michael: Yep. So then the second thing, there, identify and own is first. The second thing is, create the opposite truth. So you're identifying the behavior in that truth, and maybe that value underneath it, but then you have to figure out what the opposite is and create that, and then start to ingrain that in you.
Kathryn: Right. Which, my example of having that belief that employees are more of a burden, and then transitioning that to employees are a privilege, and then creating a mantra that helped me develop the habit of living into that.
Michael: Yeah, that's a great example.
Kathryn: So that's how I did it in that particular piece of my world.
Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's really good. For me, one of the things that happened is, I started learning how to actually figure out how to start looking at every type of work, and first of all, going, "Thank you for the work." And then trying to identify the difference between labor and toil. Is this labor work or toil work?
Michael: And a lot of times, I could shift and turn toil work into labor work, if I had a bigger purpose in mind. Really important for engagement. And so I would work on those limiting beliefs of this actually, instead of saying, "This doesn't apply to anything," if I do this, this is going to help over here and here and here, and this has a bigger purpose to it. Great. All of the sudden, it just converted to labor, and my motivation increases.
Kathryn: Yep. Very good.
Michael: So it's easier to do. So there is a habit that you work on. So create the truth, find the opposite truth of that negative belief, that negative value, and change it, and start ingraining it in you and practicing that. And then the third one is, find community. Find like-minded community. And we were going to talk just a little bit about this, because we're going to actually do another podcast next week on this episode.
Kathryn: Yeah. So the concept of finding community, obviously friends, family, all those kinds of things. But sometimes, you need a community that is of people who do things that you do.
Kathryn: Of people who understand. Right? It was really funny, even again, at this conference, of how many of these folks basically said, "I am so grateful to be around a bunch of people who understand what an online business is, and I don't have to explain it to them. They just get it. You are my people."
Michael: And an online business, not only online business.
Michael: Online membership sites, because there's a lot of people who have businesses online that you start talking membership and it's like "Ah, how do I, and what is the ...?"
Kathryn: So they're part of this community of people who are chasing after the same model that they're chasing after, that we're chasing after. So there, we're part of this community where you're not having to explain the concept. You're just with people who can encourage you in the best way to apply that concept to your particular market or niche. So that sense of community, and we're going to talk about that for leaders in our next podcast.
Michael: And we belong to three different associations that are in different areas, different types of business, not just membership, and that believe in small business and that believe in our values, and that teach skills and things like that. And we've chosen to be a part of that.
Michael: And realizing that, for us, as if any of you have been around this last year, longer than a year, you realize that we started a course last year and ran through that. And then we had the fires of Northern California of paradise, and that stopped us from starting our membership. And so we're going to talk a little bit more about some of those things that are happening, but we're getting ready to open up our membership to a founding group of folks that are going to be first opportunity to get in and be a part of that community.
Michael: And it's going to be cool. And we're going to reduce the price as kind of an opportunity for folks that want to get in. Because we think it's going to be incredibly powerful to grow community that cares about business and leadership and passion and provision, and creating a holistic model around your business and your life, so that you can experience more labor, more fulfillment, more joy, and you can actually give that back as you're leading.
Kathryn: Yeah. So that'll be our next podcast.
Michael: So that'll be. So let's recap these three things. How do you figure out these behaviors, values and paradigms like we talked about? Well, you talk about, you have to identify the results in the behaviors that aren't working. You have to own them. And then you have to create, you want to create a truth that is the opposite, something that is true, that is the opposite of that, and start reinforcing it.
Michael: Because it's really hard to say, "I do this bad thing and I'm just trying to not do it, not do it, not do it." It's way easier to change your focus, because there's a saying we have that what you look at grows bigger. And so if you can look at the positive thing that you want to move towards, your brain, your mind, your soul, is going to move more towards that.
Kathryn: Well, and even scientifically, you'll create new neural pathways. Just reality is that if you stop rehearsing that limiting belief and you start rehearsing a truth, and putting that into practice, over time, you will create new neural pathways.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn: It's just science.
Michael: It's like taking a stick in the dirt. It's just science.
Kathryn: I say that as though I understand the brain. I don't, but it's just science. I've heard it.
Michael: Yeah. And then the third one is, find a community that reinforces it. Because you can't get to clarity alone and you're not going to stay on that path. That's the wise path to be on, pursuing wisdom. You want to be around other people that are pursuing wisdom, and pursuing that kind of, those core values, and understands the world you live in. And being a business leader is a unique world. There's just not a lot of us out there.
Michael: So, we want to thank you for joining us today. That's it. As we talk about limiting beliefs, behaviors, values and paradigms, and identifying and owning, creating the opposite truth that you want to live into and finding a community that supports it, that's how you can really get over and continue to grow as a person, as a leader, and see yourself breaking through those things that have been holding you back. Those walls, those glass ceilings in your business and your personal life.
Kathryn: Well, and if you are interested and you don't want to wait until the next podcast to hear more, you just want to get on a wait list, go to Habovillage.com and just click on the button that says add me to the wait list. And you'll give us your email, tell us one thing about you that's real simple. It takes about 35 seconds, and then you'll start getting emails about what we're thinking and what we're planning, and you'll be in the know.
Michael: Great content that supports you in this place, and then you'll actually be there. So when we flip the switch and pull this community together, you can at least have the opportunity to join at the founder's rate.
Michael: All right, so, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I am Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And this is the podcast that helps leaders in business build passion provision companies full of more profit and joy, or ...
Kathryn: Profit, purpose and legacy.
Michael: We're still practicing.
Kathryn: I almost tripped.
Michael: Hey, have a great day. Thank you for joining us. Bye bye.