Michael: Hello everyone and welcome to the HaBO Village podcast, I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And this is the podcast that helps small and medium sized business leaders build passion and provision companies, companies that are full of profit, purpose and legacy. And these ideas are the tips and the concepts and conversations around what it takes to be in the trenches and actually run a business where you believe that it should be profitable and successful and fulfilled.
Kathryn: Absolutely. And you know what? This is a really, really interesting season to be having conversations like that because we're in COVID-19, we're in coronavirus, still in lockdown, most of you across the country are still in lockdown.
Kathryn: It's towards the end of April, and-
Michael: We're recording this on April 21st I guess, 22nd, and we are in California, we're still in a lockdown for the most part, unless it's essential stuff, people are starting to get stir crazy, people who have been in isolation for a month are going, why can't I have a hug?
Kathryn: I need a hug and I need one bad.
Michael: And since the virus we figured it has an incubation of, depending on who you're listening to, somewhere between four or five days to-
Kathryn: 14 days.
Michael: ... 14 days. 14 days may be the one where you're just trying to be safe. I mean, we know that there's a lot of people who just don't have the virus. That said, you're never really 100% sure where somebody went to and got exposed. But today we want to talk about tips. Everything we just talked about for a moment, this is the world we're living in, we're talking about not hugging people or should we hug people. This is not a normal world.
Kathryn: There's nothing normal about this world.
Michael: So we're going to talk today to bring some more ideas and thoughts on pretty much two or three different groups of folks. The first group is, hey, if you're still busy like us, because of the way our business was designed and because of our market space, we're not dramatically affected by having to go remote. So I realize talking to a friend last night who's in the business, this is the second entrepreneurial venture that he's in, and he said the first one was skyrocket, it was great, it wasn't much different. This second company that he's had, has had a much longer runway. It Is the same leadership, it's in the same basic industry, I mean it's in the software industry. He is basically the same team, he says it's radically different, it's not obvious he's become a better leader because of it. But one of the things we realize is there are some industries right now that are just being devastated.
Kathryn: Yeah. And he's in an industry where 95% of his revenue comes from events, right?
Michael: And it's gone.
Kathryn: And it's just gone. So that's a very different situation. So that's a second group of people. So you've got people who are essential workers that get to keep doing what they're doing, just under challenging circumstances, like maybe they have to wear masks, and that's a very different work environment and feels really weird. And then you've got people who are busier because of this, if you work at Amazon obviously you're not slowing down any. You work at Zoom you're not slowing down any. So you've got people who are busier and then you've the category of folks, leaders out there who they're not sure how they're going to survive this. So those are kind of three different categories of people.
Michael: And we're not going to talk about the emergency workers today.
Kathryn: No. So I was thinking about Starbucks.
Michael: I don't think they're considered emergency workers.
Kathryn: No, but they have masks and stuff. I was just listening to a guy who being interviewed the other day, okay, I'm going to talk about this one group of people. So I'm thinking about these people because they asked him a question, it's an NPR story, and the question was asked, "How does having to wear a mask at work affect you?" And he said, "The hardest thing is that I can't see people's facial expressions."
Michael: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kathryn: Right, I don't know what they're thinking-
Michael: I can't see if they're smiling or-
Kathryn: ... I don't know if they're smiling, and he goes, "And my main thing is I'm the smiley, encouragey guy, and everybody just looks mad, they don't look happy." I thought that's just got to be a hard environment to work in.
Michael: It's got to be hard.
Kathryn: But we're not talking about that.
Michael: No, but I'm glad you felt comfortable there, that's good. I mean, it is a real issue-
Kathryn: It made me think about my Starbuck worker, when I went in to pick up my mobile order the other day, I was like, yeah, it's kind of hard to see what you're thinking, that's hard.
Michael: Okay. And you know what? That's a group of people that are really struggling and challenged, because they're working with our local coffee company, one of the local ones on the West coast, Dutch Brothers. If you're not from the Pacific Northwest, mid California, you probably don't know anything about Dutch Brothers, but it's a chain, and they're all locally owned, kind of a franchise. They're small, but they're still working. The kids are out there with orange masks on, all these different fun vibe, stuff like that. But it's harder just trying to do all this, and you're trying to do your best to stay away.
Michael: I feel like I'm being rude when I get close to somebody who, I'm like, Hey, okay, well, all right, bye-bye. And I'm like want to hug them.
Kathryn: It used to be rude not to engage, now it's rude to engage.
Michael: So these are challenges we're having, let's talk about the people that have teams right now, are used to being in an office and now they're remote. We have friends that have an engineering company, they have a majority of people that are remote now, and some that are in the office spread out, but they hate it, leadership hates it.
Kathryn: Yep. I was talking with one of our clients yesterday, he's the only one in his office, everybody else is distributed and getting them set up was hard, and then just continuing, just keeping momentum is hard.
Michael: Yeah, it's super hard. So here's what we realized, we realized that on a scale of one to a hundred if our regular drive is about 80, and that's our normal, we burst into the 90s and have all this great stuff, but wait, we got a nice solid B, B+ running on a daily basis in the office. Then we encounter this thing here and everybody goes remotes, and because we're not used to remote, and our team isn't used to remote, then it comes down and slides into the, I don't know, 60% effectiveness rate if we were 80.
Kathryn: Yeah. And just owning the very real fact that it's hard to keep yourself motivated some days. And people who work from home and work remote, there's an art to it. So those that have been pushed, and it takes a while to develop those rhythms. So for those who haven't done it and have been pushed into this, all of a sudden there's this sense, one of our employees says, "It just feels like Groundhog day." It isn't just because they're having to work remote, it's because you're having to work remote while the rest of your life is also impacted.
Kathryn: So you don't have your social life, you don't have your getting out and doing stuff life. So you just, there's that sense of just feeling trapped, and that can lead to some discouragement.
Michael: Yeah. Well, and I was talking to a friend of mine recently who's one of my coaches, and there's probably 25 of them on the coaching staff, maybe less, maybe 15 on the coaching staff, there's about 50, 55 in the company. And they're spread out all over the place, and he's actually in Canada, and he's used to being a remote worker, likes being a remote worker, has been with this company for two years, it was Peter. But I said, "So how are you doing?" And he goes, "The first three or four weeks I actually became depressed. When it started and the whole..." because there's a part of the company that's not remote, but a huge chunk of the company is remote. And he said, "I'm remote, I thought it would be fine, it'd be great-
Kathryn: Yeah, what could go wrong? I'm used to this.
Michael: ... slide into this. He said, "But because it impacted every other area of my life, and this is a pretty social guy. All of a sudden it was like his entire life shrink, and it wasn't just about him being distributed or remote, it was my entire life changed. And so now you've got this impact of we've taken a company that has spread our employees and they're all remote, and then the rest of the world has impacted them and now you're having to shepherd your staff at a distance, and you don't get to see the little things, you don't get to stop by their desk and just have a little two minute conversation, or have a casual interaction with them getting coffee to just watch and observe. You don't get to do that.
Kathryn: Right. And then you have people who are starting to actually coin the term Zoom fatigue. Right? Zoom has now become a noun, it's like, we're Zooming, we Zoom. And there's so much of it and that recognition and realization, I was chatting with a friend of mine on the phone this morning, who I just miss seeing, and yeah, I can see her in zoom, but it's not the same-
Michael: No, it's not the same.
Kathryn: ... By any stretch, as being in the room with people and we know that. And so there's also this Zoom fatigue, where it's like, I could see you but I don't even want to be on Zoom anymore to be social, because I'm so worn out from being on Zoom for work.
Michael: Well, and it's really funny because we have business associates and friends that we get to see maybe once a year, that are around the country. I would much rather be on Zoom with them than on the phone, because I enjoy have that facial interaction.
Michael: Those people are different, people like John in Boston, people like Peter in Canada. Those people are different to me because I'm not used to interacting and touching them and I have my human reaction-
Kathryn: Char in South Africa.
Michael: Yeah. I have these human interaction things that I can do that fill the need, and one of the things we've realized that America is typically an extroverted country. And we have our society and our structures built around being extroverted.
Kathryn: It's true.
Michael: And where people go is people think binary, we always, the human mind wants to shove it into an either or category, we love those things. Scales are a little harder for us to assess and keep our hands wrapped around. And one of the things I'm seeing is this issue of people saying, I'm an introvert, I like to be alone. I'm thinking this is going to be great. We have introverts on our staff that are really struggling with this, because what happens is, they're not isolationists, introverts.
Kathryn: Right. They love community.
Michael: They love community, they love people, what they have is the difference between the introvert and the extrovert on a general basis in our society is, one likes more alone time, the typical introvert likes more alone time than group time. And the extrovert prefers more group time than alone time. But both groups find alone time during the day and both groups find community time during their average day. The introvert actually finds more community time. but now what's happened in the midst of this is group community time has been removed from the equation for most people except for an electronic version. And that has taken us to the place where it's like, okay, everybody in isolation. Now, is that the kind of introvert you are? No, most people aren't.
Michael: And then we have the emotional weight that we can't reach out to some of our emotional support group, and get a hug, or even hang out in the same room even if we're social distancing, that's even being discouraged, don't go over to somebody's house, even if you're going to sit on the opposite side of the room.
Michael: And so how do we deal with this in an office space? We want to talk about that, let's talk about that a couple of minutes. Here are some tips. We're realizing that because all of this is new and because we're watching this, it's really hard as a leader to go, I got a lot of stuff to do. I'm telling you what, folks, we're busy, we have a book launch coming in two weeks.
Kathryn: And there is nothing like launching a book and walking through a book launch project with a bunch of people who are now remote, and you're doing it for the first time anyway, it's a big project and now they're not here to be like, Hey, what's going on? It is so hard.
Michael: Yeah. And so when it comes to amount of work as a leader, Kathryn and I have a double stack of things on our plate that we have to be paying attention to, or we have to do and things we have to get done. And then there's the daily activities of just like, well, I need to get this done, well, if you don't get this done I'm being held up. So I'm saying that because I want you to know we're not just sitting around doing nothing, because the next thing I'm going to say is the challenge we all have as leaders in this period of time, especially when we have, whether they're in our office or they're away, but if they're distributed, it's even harder. Is we have to actually say, I only have so much room on my plate and I actually have to carve out more space to check in and make sure my people are okay.
Michael: If you don't, it will be like saying the machine is going to work fine without anybody managing it, and then it starts to burn out and the oil starts to get low and everything else and you're not there to see it. And your productivity in your company, your ability to accomplish things and meet the deadlines you have for customers-
Kathryn: The morale, the everything.
Michael: All of that stuff is going to be impacted. This is a season where you have to say, this is not business as normal, this is different. And we're probably starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and it's not a train, right?
Michael: We're going to be out of it. See there's the difference, I'm believing that it's not a train, Kathryn is like, I still think we're going to get run over.
Kathryn: Welcome to our lives.
Michael: So I want to encourage you, you leaders, I know it's hard. I know it's hard to say, look, I got crap to do, or we got things to go, we got... You have to dial back your expectations of what you're going to accomplish in this season of time. The issue is not how do I grow my company in this season of time? The issue is not how do I gain an extra 2% of market share in this time? I know that you want to, and I know that, well, some of you do, some of you understand this really, really well. The issue is, if you like your team and you want them to stay with you and you want them to stay engaged, you need to spend extra time in the midst of this surviving it and making sure that you survive it with a decent rate, a decent health. Because what you don't need right now is to lose an employee and to have to try and go out and find a new employee right now.
Kathryn: Yeah, that would be really difficult.
Michael: Especially a high skilled, high knowledge employee, and try and figure out then how do you onboard them in the middle of all this? Now you probably, some of you out there, well, we hired people right before this thing happened and we're trying to onboard them, but the average company is not onboarding right now. And so you want to just do that, and here's a couple of things we talked about a few episodes ago, but a couple of things we can do to try and help encourage our team and watch how our team is doing.
Kathryn: Yeah. So we instituted, I think it was two weeks into this. We were a little shoddy for a couple of weeks, didn't realize the criticalness of it, but we instituted check-ins twice a day, so 8:30 in the morning, 4:30 in the afternoon. So they're 15 minutes, sometimes they go a little bit longer, but the check-in is, at the beginning of the day it's how you doing? Real quick, okay, what do you need today? And then obviously there's tons of meetings throughout the day. So it's kind of like that 10 minute standup. The 4:30 in the afternoon is way more about how are you? On a scale of one to 10 how are you doing? And what's the biggest reason for that number kind thing? So that we can just continue to check in on the emotional health of our people.
Michael: Well, and how did the day go? And what do we need so that you can get a fresh start in the morning? I mean, I really care about that, I'm like, okay, I want to know how I'm... In the middle of all this, I can check on how you're doing for work, how you're getting stuff done? Are you stuck? But I can also make sure that in the midst of that we are checking on-
Kathryn: Emotional health.
Michael: ... Emotional health and checking in. Two big reasons to do that, one, it gives you another touch point to communicate that is intentional, because with the Zoom stuff it's hard to be intentional. Because so much stuff is informal in an office space. Second thing is it provides structure. Structure is really critical in a situation like this, because so much structure was ripped away from everybody.
Michael: And it's that, like you said earlier, instance of Groundhog day every day. It starts to feel like it doesn't matter.
Kathryn: Well, and sometimes is one of the things we talk about in terms of communication and goal setting and things like that, it also provides a level of accountability, right?
Michael: Yeah, absolutely.
Kathryn: So your team knows that at the end of every day they're going to get asked, how did your day go? Were you productive? Were you able to achieve? And those things really matter too, because it's that sense of somebody checking in, not with the overlord sort of, are you doing your work? But in that sense of I care that you're moving forward and what you're doing matters to the overall success of our clients, of us, of whatever. So just that reminder that accountability that you would have if somebody's working in the office with you, you kind of, it's a little bit more organic, whereas in this season it needs to be a little bit more structured. So that's also part of it too.
Michael: So let me ask you a question. What's the hardest thing for you in the last couple of weeks in the midst of this structure?
Kathryn: The hardest thing for me is that, it's like a lifelong struggle but just has been exacerbated by this, because we can come to the office, I come to the office at 8:30 in the morning, between 8:00 and 8:30 and I sit down at my desk and I work and I don't take breaks and I forget to go for a walk and there's nobody to get up and really talk to, so there's none of that. And I keep working, and then I'm getting home at seven o'clock at night. So I'm working like 11 sometimes 12 hour days on a regular basis. And every day I go, I'm not going to do that, and there's no one to stop me. Well you could, but it's hard. So [crosstalk 00:17:19]-
Michael: It's hard or me to stop you.
Kathryn: It is, it's really hard. You're coming home now, right? I have dinner waiting. So, that's the hardest thing for me, is I feel like I'm overworking and it pulls out that workaholic bit in me that's like, I can get just a bit more done, I can get just a bit more done, and I don't stop and I don't take breaks and then my body hurts and it's just not sustainable. So that's the hardest part for me.
Michael: Yeah. I think the hardest part for me is... What is the hardest part for me? The hardest part for me is the frustration I feel when things are taking longer. I find myself more frustrated with the mistakes or the repetitions we have to go through, it's like we had this finally well oiled machine, it had its creeks and everything else, but it worked well. And now what I'm having to do is regular reset on every other day basis it feels like, I'm having to reset my expectations. And when my expectations aren't met I'm frustrated, because I'm like, okay, I thought I could expect this.
Kathryn: Well, and I thought I communicated it, during that Zoom meeting.
Michael: And so we have communications, one of the things that we're challenged with at Half a Bubble Out is the issues of really communicating instructions. You say something, you think you communicated, now we're an oral community, right? We try and write down a lot of stuff, and we try and write systems down, but there's a lot of problem solving that goes along with. There's no system for a checklist for the problem solving, you've got to create that checklist as you're having a conversation. And together-
Kathryn: While on your whiteboard has gone away, right?
Michael: And my whiteboard, which is a huge tool.
Kathryn: You're a visual communicator with your whiteboard and we're not, it's different, it's hard now.
Michael: Well, and one of the things that I know about, people tease me about the whiteboard, but one of the things I realized about whiteboards, and I learned it a long time ago, whiteboards or no pads next to somebody or something like that, it actually allows you to take a concept or a piece of information, put it down that everybody can look at and nobody has to remember in the conversation.
Michael: Whiteboards and those kinds of tools reduce the cognitive overload, is the technical term, but it really, basically you get in a conversation, you're like, if you've ever had somebody go, okay, well why are we having a problem with this? Oh, well, 10 minutes ago we talked about, Oh yeah, yeah, don't forget that. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. We don't forget that. Well, put it on the whiteboard, you don't forget it, you continue to point back and go remember this. Oh yeah, yeah. And you can stare at it while somebody else is talking and look at it and think about it and think about what they're saying all at the same time.
Kathryn: Yeah. And there are digital whiteboards, but it's not the same, it's just harder.
Michael: Zoom whiteboard is really hard with a mouse, and I haven't figured out how to get past that yet.
Kathryn: And may not figure it out [crosstalk 00:20:14].
Michael: I went to Best Buy to actually solve the problem and Best Buy wouldn't let me in. So that was frustrating [inaudible 00:20:20], I know-
Kathryn: Not an essential business as it turns out.
Michael: I know what I want, and I know where to get it.
Kathryn: Order online maybe.
Michael: I could, but yeah. Anyway, so the idea as a leader of, these are my expectations and then I thought I communicated well and I don't want to just tell people, look, I communicated fine and you sucked at listening.
Michael: And because it's not always the case. And-
Kathryn: No and times where you thought you did something and you didn't.
Kathryn: So those things happen too.
Michael: It's challenging. And even with emails, you send an email and it's a totally different way of communicating and catching things. As a leader, I'm struggling with that and I'm also trying to make sure that I'm communicating in a healthy way to our staff, that there are times when I'm frustrated with them, because I need them to step up probably way more times, probably 70% of the time I'm frustrated because I didn't adapt my communication enough and figure out how to lead and set the standards and systems in this place on how we're going to communicate to get these things done and get them covered in time. And because our business isn't the same exact thing all day long-
Kathryn: Because we have this new project we're working on we've never done before.
Michael: Well, I think with clients and stuff, so paying attention, and so I'm going to wrap all that up in this neat little realize, remember that we are in a season that will come to an end. Remember that we are in a place where we need to survive through this, to thrive. The best example I got through the great recession when things were really bad and really hard was, and it seem so long that it felt like you should just be, you should be growing your business and everything else, and the advice was given to me by my mom, amazingly enough had some experience with small business. This period of time now just hold on. If you survive it, then you'll be fine on the other side, then you can get back to normal things, but right now this is one of those, this is a boulder in the road, there was a landslide on our journey through our path and now everything's slowed down, there's a lot more traffic and we can't get through on the side.
Kathryn: Going to have to figure out another path.
Michael: We got to figure out another path and we've got to tell our convoy how to get around and back to a different way, and we've got to figure out how to do that. And we've got some great tools like Zoom and phone and we're able to work with computers and stuff like that, for a lot of people, that's great. But we just need to be patient and really dial back our expectations as leaders. That's my advice and I'm seeing it in a lot of different places throughout the country and even globally, and the conversations, we're having a lot of different conversations. I'm having a lot of conversations with leaders in different places, and I spent three days last week on a Zoom conference with other leaders. And it was hard, but you get to hear a lot of those things going on too.
Michael: All right, so you've kind of got-
Kathryn: Yeah, that's the one group that you've got people who are able to work and you're dealing with your remote teams and that's one set of challenges. But what about our friends who are listening and going, good God, I would pay to have those problems, because I just don't have business. What about those forks?
Michael: Yeah, you know what, here's what I want, this one a little long, I want to do another podcast to forward them, but because I don't want them to feel totally left out, I'm going to just reiterate something that's being said a lot right now. Right now is the season to work on your business and not in your business. If there's no in business to work on, if so much stuff has been pulled back, this is how you work on your business, this is how you start putting in, build some more systems out, build the opportunity to set things up if you're in a manufacturing environment or something like that, in your office makes sure that the systems and the cleaning and the things that you wanted to get done before, just you never have time for, this is where you have time. Take the advantage because this will give you efficiencies on the backside of this thing. And do what you need to do to survive, but if there's no business coming in, then start working on those kinds of things.
Michael: The other thing you can do is, right now is a great time to work on your marketing. So many companies have a gap between where they are and where they should be ideally for the amount of things they do for marketing, whether it's sending out emails and touching base with people, following up on calls or following up on emails, following up on old clients to see how they're doing. One of the purposes of marketing is to help stay top of mind with people, and caring about people is a phenomenal marketing tool.
Kathryn: It's also very human, we like it.
Michael: And staying in touch and just saying, okay, Hey, you know what? There's all these customers that we've had in the last two years, what if I went through my Rolodex? I know you don't have a Rolodex most of you. But you've my digital Rolodex, what if I went through my list and I just started either sending emails or I got the phone and I called and I left a message? Or if you're even more prone for technology, why don't I use a software like BombBomb? And if you haven't seen BombBomb, it allows you to do these cool, short videos and then send a link to an email and it's cool. It's a subscription thing, but it's cool. So why don't you contact, just go, "Hey, I was thinking about you, I'm wondering how you're doing during this time?" Just to be human, just to be caring, but guess what? Those are marketing efforts. And those are kind of great things to do.
Michael: One of the things we're doing is we're putting together some video stuff and in the gap, and not having anybody in the office allows us to do some things that are more efficient. We're spending all day tomorrow shooting a fast track course, which is a mini version of our masterclass. And we're going to shoot eight videos tomorrow and all about 20 to 30 minutes long. And so you can, somebody could move through our entire course in less than four hours, and it's high level, it gives just the core pieces, it doesn't get into the nitty gritty and the details, but it will be a great thing and it'll be a great tool and we're going to use it as the book launches for a discounted price to introduce people to our content also. So that's one of the things we're going to be doing.
Michael: Those are just a couple of ideas, if you're in that place, I just want to encourage you, I find myself praying for all of you who were in businesses that there is no revenue right now, or most of your revenue is gone. And it's nice when people say, "Well, why don't you just, to restaurants, why don't you just sell take out or sell it on the curb?" Okay, so now you're in competition with 25 other restaurants that are selling on the curb-
Kathryn: And obviously there's not as much volume going to exist in that.
Michael: Merely a split volume.
Kathryn: There is something, but it's definitely not everything.
Michael: So we know that it's not a solution, and I don't want to be flippant about that.
Kathryn: Oh, and hopefully you're taking advantage of the payroll protection program and some of those SBA loans that are available.
Michael: Yeah, if they're good for you and if they work for you.
Michael: So I just want you to know we care, we understand, we know it's hard and we're going to talk another episode more about you and more about some of those ideas that we've seen that can work and things that you could do to start prepping because there's things that you can work on your business and there's also things you can be doing that are going to help pull you out of this faster. And so we're going to talk about that, a couple of great tips for restaurant tours, or anybody that could imagine this idea, we've got an idea that we're going to talk about in that, so.
Michael: In that next episode we'll kind of go through some of those things, because there's just some great, easy things you can do that takes some energy and time, but if you focus and if you can pull yourself in and that's what being an entrepreneur is about, being able to adapt to the challenges, because they always come, the surprises happen, and this just seems to be a really big one for all of us.
Michael: So I think those are some things, we just want to encourage you, here are some tips, keep up those of you that have remote teams, keep up with the mental health. You need a daily check, like I do, like Katherine does, on how are you doing? And how are you doing as a leader and a reminder. And we've had some good reminders from folks, just like, Hey, make sure you're doing this, and we're reminding you, just it's a good touch point, I know you know this.
Kathryn: You're probably doing it, so keep doing it.
Michael: Just be encouraged, right? You're doing the right thing, just keep going, laying in, because you're going to have doubts and we just want to encourage you in the midst of that.
Michael: That's our podcast for today. We spent a little bit more time on that one group and I apologize for that, but I think it was some really good conversation.
Michael: Yeah, think so?
Kathryn: Yeah. Well, the audience will tell.
Michael: The audience [crosstalk 00:29:13]-
Kathryn: I enjoyed the conversation.
Michael: I just think we should decide for them, if it's a good conversation or not. Hey, and all, adjusting, but sort of I all seriousness, we just really thank you for taking the time to listen to us, we hope we're an encouragement, we hope we help support you, and if there's anything that you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we'd love to hear from you.
Michael: Email to firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com.
Kathryn: We will answer either.
Michael: Both of them get to us, and we'd love to hear your comments and we'd love to hear what you think about topics that would be really valuable and helpful to you. And maybe even anybody you'd like to see us interview, that's not above our pay grade. And so-
Kathryn: I don't know, I love [crosstalk 00:30:01]-
Michael: The other thing is we really are going to continue to encourage people to check out our book, Fulfilled: A passion provision strategy for building companies with profit, purpose and legacy.
Kathryn: Available when?
Michael: May 5th.
Kathryn: Coming May 5th.
Michael: At amazon.com and for the first week starting May 5th through the 11th, it's going to be available for 99 cents. The Kindle version is going to be available-
Kathryn: Only the Kindle version. Clarify.
Michael: Only the Kindle version is going to be available for 99 cents, so it's going to be about for a dollar, check it out and see if it's worth something, see if it's worth putting into your library, in a paperback or something like that. But we would really love to have your help, amazingly helpful. We will really appreciate it.
Michael: Hey, have a great day, I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And this is the HaBO Village podcast. Take care.