Michael: Hello, and welcome to HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And this podcast is about helping business leaders like you get over things like burnout and frustration and in just all the yuckies that you have in running your business. Because what we want is we want you to have more passion and provision, and we want you to be able to develop into your company and see profit, purpose and legacy raising to the surface.
Kathryn: And less yuckies.
Michael: And less yuckies. So you like how I did that today?
Kathryn: That was a novel. I liked it.
Michael: Yeah, novel. Which means it won't be coming back again, folks. Okay. So today we're going to talk about our process. I thought it would be cool to share about the fact that we just finished recording our audio book, how that happened, what's going on with that, what that was like, because that's really consumed a huge amount of our time. And I think that A, it would be interesting. And B we could talk a little bit about the process of going through a book and creating a book.
Kathryn: There you go. So for those of you who don't know or perhaps tuning in for the first time, yes we have written a book. Yes, it is coming out May 5th and the title of the book is Fulfilled and it is subtitled How to create or... Wow. It's subtitled, A Passion and Provision strategy for Creating a Business with Profit Purpose and Legacy.
Michael: I mean, we've been mentioning it a little bit here and there periodically in the book-
Kathryn: Or in the podcast.
Michael: In the podcast about the book and the fact that we've been writing the book. We spent literally three fourths of 2019 writing the book. And we spent 2016 and 2017, actually trying-
Kathryn: To write a book.
Michael: To write a book.
Kathryn: In 2018, giving up for a season because we had other things that were going on [crosstalk 00:01:53].
Michael: We created the course, because we were just like, okay, this is not working. We've been pushing ahead trying to make the book work. It wasn't, let's create the course. So we created the course, which was really good because the course that we created for Passion and Provision, all of it it's the same theme. That really helped us.
Kathryn: It gave some structure to how we wanted to put it all together and it definitely helped us move the book project forward significantly. Because it did. Yeah, just it gave structure.
Michael: Well and we've been working on it. And when we sat down and said, okay, we're going to build a course and we did it. It took six months to write and shoot and put it all together and do all the developing for that. Really.
Michael: So that was really helpful in putting together the idea that, okay, how do you create a flow? What are we talking about? What is it that we care about?
Kathryn: So Michael, if you were to try and describe just succinctly, besides the tagline, you know how to build a Passion and Provision or the Passion and Provision strategy for building a company with profit purpose and legacy. How would you describe what we're trying to achieve in this book? Like what's the heart and soul of it for you.
Michael: I find myself thinking about an event that happened when I was in fourth grade. It was the first time I remember the idea of wanting to have work that I enjoyed. And out of that over the next year, because I was fighting with my father a lot about the fact that I was somewhat lazy, but what I really was in... I found out, I realized later I was, because my dad told me I was lazy. I found out that I was in a process of when I found things that I really loved, I didn't mind working a lot. And somehow I was like, okay, this is great. And I saw my father... My dad worked all the time and hated it. My dad would end up in the hospital because of stress disorders. Literally in the hospital, we'd go visit him as a kid, was stress disorders because he hated his work so much.
Michael: And everything he loved, he did as a hobby, which took him away even more. So he could never figure out how to do it. And he, and the only reason he didn't try and go after the other stuff is, because he was just afraid. He actually-
Kathryn: So the reason he didn't go after like trying to make a living, doing the stuff he loved was because he was afraid of not being able to provide for his family.
Michael: And he was like, I don't want to be miserable, but I don't want to do that. So what he wanted to do is he wanted to be a music teacher. But somehow he was afraid that being a music teacher, he would be miserable or not making enough money or something like that. So he went to college and studied business. Failed out of college and then just kind of went into business.
Michael: I mean, he didn't fail out of college. He dropped out early and he just was miserable all the time and then did music on the side and he was never around. So he was either miserable, drunk or not around most of the time. And that was my picture of work. And I remember having a blow up with them when I was in fifth grade over the fact that I didn't know if there was more or not. I didn't have other models of wow, everybody else loves their work type of thing. I had him, there were friends of the family, but they were all drunks. A lot of them were not all of them. There were some people at Church, but I didn't know about how they were at home and what their real life was like. And then there was my grandfather who was a Greyhound bus driver and loved his work.
Michael: So if you take this thing now, forgive me. It's not concise on this. I'm telling the story kind of in a backwards, backing into it. What the book is about. It started out with, I want to enjoy my work. I don't want to end up like my dad. There's got to be a better way because when I do things, I really like, I can get lost in them. So how can I make a living doing things I like? And the events at fourth grade was the neighbor who I didn't like. He was kind of a mean guy. And he would give my parents a hard time and stuff. And some days he was nice to me. And some days he wasn't, he wanted me mow his lawn. And I was playing that day and I didn't want to mow his lawn. And he got mad at me. And he got so mad at me that he came over and told my parents that I had denied him.
Michael: And I was being like, it was like, I had done something horrible by telling him I didn't want to mow his lawn. And he'd offered to pay me. It was the bizarrest thing. And then I got in trouble with my parents. My parents confronted me. I was a pretty stubborn kid at that time taking after my mom and my dad, both having a stubborn streak in them. And I just said, I have a choice and I'm not mowing that lawn. It was offered to me as a choice. I said, no, I shouldn't have to do it. I never mowed his lawn.
Kathryn: Shocker. I would have been strong armed into it. I would have absolutely been like fine. Dang it. I mow the stupid lawn. Okay. I'm a horrible person. You, you're like screw the world. I'm not mowing the lawn.
Michael: I'm not mowing the lawn, and by the way, I started a lawn company later in my life. And through my late elementary school and teen years, I had a lawn company and did lawn.
Kathryn: Just not for that guy.
Michael: No, not at all.
Kathryn: So there's this concept of even early on in your life. wanting to enjoy your work and wanting to be able to give kind of everything to it, but not have the life sucked out of you along the way, right?
Kathryn: And so you saw that in your grandpa.
Michael: So grandpa loved his job and, from my dad's perspective and everything else, grandpa didn't make much money. He was a bus driver. Who knows how much money grandpa made, but we know he didn't make much money. He retired at 60 with a full pension. He grew up in the logging industry where there in the great depression in Oregon. And there, I mean, a pension didn't exist.
Michael: He went away to war, was out the Pacific for a while. Came back, was going to go back into the logging industry and getting this company called Greyhound. And he loved driving. He drove truck for the logging industry. And when he came back, he found out about this company Greyhound. And they had this new thing called a pension and my grandmother for multiple reasons in their life that were pretty compelling, that for both of them seem like a really good deal. And it was a measure of safety. And it said we are not poor like we were when we grew up in the great depression.
Kathryn: And we maybe know how we're going to take care of ourselves when we retire.
Michael: Like my grandmother comes from extreme poverty. And I mean, she was born and raised in a boarding house where her mother worked. So that's not much of a... I mean, or around the boarding house. So they never owned a house or anything like that. So they bought the little house. Grandpa went to war, they came back. My mom had been born just before he left. And then they got this pension and then they moved to Redding, California and bought another house. And he just worked for 30 years for one company. We were told in the eighties and maybe in the seventies a little bit, but I remember a message being sent in our society was attention, it was a tug of war. Go to work for a company, retire from a company, which was an old message that the new message was that sucks, that's awful, that'll never happen. And In the eighties, it was like, nobody's going to do that again. That's going away. Companies don't care, they'll downsize. They don't care about you, don't give your life to a company.
Michael: And so what happened in midst of all of that was we had this idea that the... The idea that you would work for a company, be happy, work 30 years, retire, have a pension was anathema by the time I was in high school. But my grandfather, it was perfect for him. He loved it. It was great. Now, Greyhound has changed a lot, but he went from 60 years old, retire, to 98 was he?
Kathryn: Yeah. I think we calculated once more. I'm pretty sure he made more money off of his pension.
Kathryn: Than while he was working for them. It's like, Oops sorry Greyhound.
Michael: It was amazing. Way to go. And it was amazing. It was what they were hoping for in 1945. And it turned out to be exactly what it needed to be. And he was happy and loved it. And at the end of the day, loved his job. And then I'd meet his other friends that were other bus drivers. And those guys, they're a tribe. They're fanatical about what they did. They loved their work. They love, they have clubs, retired bus drivers, and they have magazines and they share magazines. And we found this out when we were cleaning out grandpa's house when he passed away. And so what drove me into all of this for the book and everything else, what's all behind it is if we're going to be entrepreneurial and start a company, if any of us are, there are things that stand in our way and there are objectives we want to have. And we all started with a dream and we're all hoping we're going to have the American dream of financial security and we're going to be happy.
Michael: And somehow happy means we're going to have a happy family and we're going to have great kids. And we're going to have kids that grow up and are well adjusted and everything else.
Kathryn: Freedom to do what we want to do and time to do what we want to do. And not under the control of somebody else's schedule all the time. I mean, all of those things that factor into wanting to start a company and work for yourself.
Michael: Why you start your own business. And yet in America, we have two things that are fighting against it. Two evils that are fighting against it. And the first evil that I think is just pure evil is the business failure rate. It is... I mean, as you and I have talked about it over and over. You're doing a great job listening, like you've never heard this before.
Kathryn: I know, well you know what? It's important.
Michael: You get into this place where you go, Ah! If running a business is the American dream, why is it that 75% of them or 80% of them fail-
Kathryn: Within the first five years.
Michael: Within the first five years. Now you look at different statistics and that's an average, but it's pretty close and nobody argues it. And so you've got this thing of what is it, what is going on and how do we reduce it? Because nobody's effectively reducing it at the big level.
Michael: And there are some individuals over the last 20 years, 30 years that have had better success at smaller groups with smaller people, but really not a lot. When we started our company, I was looking for some of that. I found one book that I really liked. Since then there's been a couple of three books in the last 18 years. There has been a couple or three books that I would say are like phenomenal textbooks that you just got to have. The Ultimate Sales Machine being one of them, the E-Myth book and E-Myth mastery were the ones that I found in the beginning. But there was a lot of stuff that didn't align with our values per se, or they weren't comprehensive, or they didn't include the issue of leadership and leadership skills.
Kathryn: Well, and the other thing that happens, and this isn't the other evil per se, because there is another evil that I think I know where you're going. But the other thing that happens is that we don't really have very good systems in college to train for small business.
Michael: Yeah I know. We do not.
Kathryn: And that's a really interesting challenge because if you go and take a business degree, like our daughter did a business degree, and the majority of what you focus on in a business degree is higher level corporate, large company types of things where... And I get why they do that. It's not that that's unimportant, but if you are trained with a business degree and what you ultimately want is to come out and start your own business. That is at least at the beginning, no matter what your dreams are, at the beginning it's a small business. A lot of times you're not trained in kind of the comprehensive nature of what it takes to run a business, right?
Kathryn: So you may be good at one thing, or you may understand finance at a super high level corporate, but like what happens when I actually have to do my own books? What happens when I have to do my own marketing? What happens when I need to set up management systems and operations, you're not trained for that stuff. So that's another challenge that comes up against folks who start businesses because so many start because they have a dream, they're working for someone they're like, I could do this so much better than the person I'm working for. I can make a better widget, whatever it is. But the education for small business is limited.
Kathryn: So E-Myth was a really good tool for that for you and I, but there hasn't been a lot.
Michael: No, there hasn't. And I'm going to interject right here and I'm just going to say it. The book is about helping people overcome these two evils and actually create companies that thrive and survive or survive and thrive. And on top of it allow us like when I was at fourth, fifth grader, trying to figure that out and then going into my high school years, trying to figure it out. What is it that if you can find... The ideal perfect small business, if you're going to start a business, allows you to financially prosper and at least 51% of your time. With the things you're working on, allow you to enjoy the work you're doing. Because if you find enjoyment in it, that's where the passion starts to pour out. Finding things that are challenging, engaging, and rewarding to you as activities, if you can get paid for that, you're way more inclined to be more attentive every minute and hour you're working on it and you have more endurance.
Michael: So you can lean in more, because running a business takes endurance. So how do we become... Build a company that is thriving and succeeding while at the same time, emotionally rewarding and full of passion or something that creates passion, you're passionate about it. And our key, the best definition we have of passion at its core is I enjoy it so much, or it's so important to me that I'm willing to sacrifice for it. And I want to be careful because people will sacrifice all day long for money and they'll sacrifice everything. And we're not talking about unhealthy sacrifice. Sacrificing your marriage, your kids, the core things in your life. We're talking about building a business that's full of passion and provision while keeping a healthy life and maturing as an adult and maturing as a leader. And that's making sure that you're covering all these bases and you're not neglecting the core fundamentals of your values. How do you do that? I mean, when it comes to building a business, we have the first evil, that's the small business failure rate. And the second one is engagement.
Kathryn: Yeah. So that's the other one. [crosstalk 00:16:38] So you start a small business, you get things going. But one of the other things that we're battling in America and across the world, but let's just talk about America is a statistic that says that 74% of American workers are disengaged at work. And that's from a Gallup poll. It was-
Michael: It's years and years of Gallups poll. I mean, that number is just sticking around.
Kathryn: Yeah. So three out of four workers disengaged and they define disengaged as sleepwalking through the job.
Michael: And what do you think the implications are of that? I mean, what's the emotional implication? How do you describe somebody who's doing that?
Kathryn: So I described that person as somebody who, first of all, if I have to pay them for a job, I am pretty unhappy about that because they're not giving their best. They don't care. All they're doing is punching the clock and going from paycheck to paycheck and working for the weekend.
Michael: Would you say you were disengaged at [Wujowodski 00:00:17:28]?
Kathryn: Yes, to some degree. Well, I would say that I was once they changed my job role.
Kathryn: So I had a situation, this was years ago.
Michael: Early in our marriage.
Kathryn: Early in our marriage, where I was working full time for a construction management company. And I was doing some good work and I liked it. And then I ended up being hired half time at the Church that we were working at, because my background, my degree, I have a Master's in New Testament theology. So it's like, Ooh, I get to work at a Church. Hey, that might be in line with what I will do with my life.
Kathryn: As it didn't turn out.
Kathryn: However, I went to work half time at the Church. And the guy running Wujowodski at that time was actually an elder in our Church, he was on the board. But for whatever reason, he decided that when I went to work half time at the Church, that he needed to take me off any important projects at the office. So I kind of was reduced to filing.
Kathryn: And you have to understand, I mean, I had a Master's degree and I'm in this office, we're just trying to make a living because the Church wasn't paying much money. And Michael was working at the Church too, and I was filing and I was just... It was really hard to stay engaged. I mean, at that point, I think it only lasted about six months. But I was-
Michael: But it was hell.
Kathryn: It was awful. I had to really force myself to be engaged because it wasn't... There was no use of my gifts and talents. Right. None. I mean, yes, I can alphabetize, so okay, I'm super talented. But all of this stuff that I've been trained to do, all of this contribution that I wanted to make to the world was like filing was not it.
Michael: Before that we lived in Silicon Valley. And when we lived there, we had just gotten married. And you worked for-
Kathryn: I had a similar situation at a company called RSA data security.
Michael: So you're in the high tech industry, you're in the security industry and you-
Kathryn: And I'm the assistant to the President. I mean, this is-
Michael: And he's a big wig.
Kathryn: He's a big wig. He's a guy who goes in and talks before Congress. He's got a red phone in his office for when the NSA calls like literally.
Michael: I mean when we're home on the weekends looking at C-SPAN, sometimes we saw him, right?
Kathryn: I loved him, but he didn't know how to have an assistant.
Michael: He didn't.
Kathryn: So he didn't even know what to do with me. So three months in, I mean, the most I felt like I had done was remodeled my office and get real good at Tetris. So I started having to invent my own job, which was my first foray into marketing actually, because I went to the marketing department and said, just tell me what you need and let me help, because I just was bored out of my skull.
Kathryn: So anytime... So that's one of the other pieces of the puzzle is this sense of we're designed to make contribution just as human beings and when we're not able to contribute, when we're not able to give our best, when we're not able to step into a role that uses our skills, gifts, and talents, then disengagement becomes a reality. So how do we create companies where we get to hire and have people who are engaged and good employees?
Michael: Yeah, absolutely. That's really a long way around to what is this book about for those of you who don't know? And for those of you who do know, I mean, this is really going through this process of writing a book and then reading a book that we've done. We're literally last night, we finished up the conclusion chapter and the acknowledgements.
Kathryn: Yeah its for creating our own audio book, right?
Michael: And so you will be able to find it on audible or you'll be able to purchase it eventually on our website. And the power of reading that and being reminded, and even going through the conclusion last night, which is really like there's in the middle of the book, there's a lot of really meaty instruction and training and good tools about the system and the strategy of Passion and Provision. And we read the introduction and that's really inspiring and you get moving and this is why we're doing it. But then you've got all this meaty stuff in the middle that's good, but it's not always the inspirational stuff.
Michael: It's the these are the things you need to do and the balance you need to have, because somebody needs to teach you and train you how to do this. Like me, I grew up in that entrepreneurial environment. My father was entrepreneurial later on in my teen years. And somehow he expressed entrepreneurialism when I was younger, but it was weird. I didn't see it as a business because it wasn't for profit. It was all his hobbies, but all the things he would start and move and nonprofits and stuff like that. And I was involved in Boy Scouts and things like that so I learned a lot about nonprofits and that kind of entrepreneurialism at some level. But you look at it and you go, I don't know this thoughts, just kind of running off into nowhere.
Kathryn: I think where you were headed was when you got to the conclusion last night and we read through the conclusion, you barely got through it. Like you were very verklempt.
Michael: I was verklempt. It was hard because it was like, this is the core of what we mean.
Kathryn: This is why we're doing it. This is what matters.
Michael: Yeah, we're throwing the next... I mean, we're literally investing everything we have time wise, financial wise, everything else. We're kind of putting like 90% of our chips on black.
Kathryn: Yeah. It's a little vulnerable.
Michael: Because we believe in it. We believe that it's like... There's a balance in our life and there are things that we do to continue to live out that Passion and Provision strategy that we've learned. Basically the core is what is wisdom, what are wise practical techniques that we need to know, that we need skills we need to have and things we need to do and attitudes and behaviors we need to have in the process that actually are the formula that when it's all done and you pull it out of the oven, you got a Passion and Provision company. You got a company that's profitable and growing.
Michael: You've got a company that's making an impact in people's lives, both yours and your employees, and-
Kathryn: And ultimately the community.
Michael: And ultimately the community, your customers, everything else. You're making... It's a win win, triple win if you will. And then that just bleeds out into people's lives because when you have that kind of thing happening, that requires a special recipe. That requires a unique wisdom. That just doesn't happen randomly because of the business failure rate and the disengagement. And I'd believe that the disengagement is all adults. So you want a company, how many people are just like, Oh, I'm slugging through this. This is hard, but it's my money. It's my time on blah, blah, blah.
Michael: But you may be engaged at a level of you're terrified and it's your red line. But you're engaged in a level where you're in burnout. And you're at... One of the most, I would say a huge percentage of small business leaders, the small and medium sized companies from 50, like let's say a 100 thousand dollars a year where they're making some kind of living to a 100 million. I know that sounds crazy. But even that 50 to 100 million, there's a lot of small businesses that are making that, that those leaders are in one of the four levels of burnout. And so, our podcast on burnout was really successful. Even, I'll share this with our audience. One of the things we're looking at doing is actually putting a quiz together that will help people assess their level of burnout and where they are and what they can do. And at least quick fixes.
Michael: This is this thing that we call Passion and Provision. And it's been really powerful. I think we've tipped out of talking about the audio book and how I'm doing that. So I want to be careful and we may even want to create something different in the front end of this, because I think this is really important to talk about. This is really a great way of saying, this is what we care about. This book is about this recipe. This podcast really is about this recipe of what are the elements you need, both knowledge, skill, and attitudes that need to come together to create a product that is resilient enough, that it fights off and gives you better protection against the business failure rate and recession and all kinds of different things that happen in the world. And it also, so it makes you as an individual leader and a company more resilient.
Michael: And it also inoculates you in many ways to getting any kind of disengagement or talking like, it's like a, what are those things that we give kids, but to fight them against diseases?
Kathryn: It's like a vaccine.
Michael: It's like a vaccine. Really what we're doing is this recipe helps make a more resilient company to fight off the challenges financially that happened, the challenge emotionally that happened that can cause you to cave in and fail or to just be moving along. And it's like, there are so many businesses that are just, they're financially moving along. They're okay. Maybe their level, but there's kind of a grind that they just are stuck in. And if they just keep going, the company won't fail, they're good enough at what they do, but it's sucking the life out of them. And they're trying to find other places to find life. And they're trying to find toys and different things like that or whatever. And rest is important and relaxation and entertainment and family, and those are balances. But when it becomes a place where you run a company and it's an opportunity to create something great, and all it is it's just a company. It's just a paycheck. I mean, business owners do that. People do that. It's just a paycheck. This is just how I make my wealth.
Kathryn: Well, and the ones that go after the money, what ends up happening then sometimes, and we've heard this story multiple times. We just heard it a little bit ago with a guy who's now starting a new company, but that concept of, if I just give everything I have to this and build it for five years, then we're going to be set for life. And then they give everything they have to it. And by the end of it, they've lost their marriage. They have no relationship with their kids. They're miserable. And the very thing that they were trying to achieve has completely alluded them because there was no balance in the middle of it. There was no recognition that you cannot give 90% of who you are to work if you want to survive relationally in your life, it's just not realistic.
Kathryn: So even just that, right, it's that how do you have Passion and Provision. Not just one or the other. Not just the starving artist passion thing, where I get to do what I love, but there's no money in it. Or the I don't love what I do, I hate it, but I'm going to make a crap ton of money and then I can go do what I love somewhere else. No it's like, how do we marry these things? How do we bring them together? Because 80% of your waking life... Is it 80% or whatever that... It depends how much you work. But a ton of your working life or of your waking life is at work. So how do we marry doing what I love-
Michael: I think it's 50% of your waking life, if you're, well, I'm going to do some math.
Kathryn: Maybe it's 80% if you're doing it unhealthy. That would be terrible. 80%, what was I thinking?
Michael: If you get eight hours of sleep a night. That leaves 16. If you work a 40 hour a week.
Kathryn: Then it's 50%.
Michael: It's 50%. And if you're in any kind of leadership role in any company-
Kathryn: You're not working a 40 hour a week.
Michael: You're not working a 40 hour week. You're working at least a 50 hour week because I mean, if nothing else, you've got your laptop on at home. I was just talking recently to one of our old employees who moved to the wine industry. And she was telling me, she's like... I'm like, so how's your work life balance? Because she loves to do this and do that and go off and do all these kinds of things and drink wine.
Michael: And I say that in a way that sounded like it was bad. It's not, but she's got it. She has an Instagram feed that is amazing. She's done a great job growing it, but it's her walking around with wine and all this kind of stuff. And, and that's a small snapshot of her life because as she's telling me, she's going, it's terrible. I work... I want freedom to run my schedule. If I need to go to the doctor and everything else. I'm like, okay, so how many hours a week are you working? Because it sounds like she wants to work 25, the way she's describing this. But what I know about her is she's actually working 50, 55 hours a week. And what she wants is the ability to stay at home in the morning, a little bit and work on her laptop.
Michael: She wants the ability to go to the doctor without having to ask permission in the middle of the day. But she's like loves her work and is working on it, and is there. So over half of your waking hours have to do with work as a general rule of thumb, especially as a leader. And so why waste it? That's your point to your point? And this is so critical. So this is what it means to be fulfilled in a work context. And we actually believe... Now this is crazy. This is like crazy talk, right? We actually believe that work is a good thing. And work that is a labor that has purpose and meaning, that actually has a positive end result that builds towards something meaningful, actually does is good for us. So the idea that we would make enough money so that we don't have to work anymore is crazy.
Michael: And every entrepreneur that I know now, now that we're older, we know a few that have actually gotten to the place where they've hit their number. They've been able to sell the company they've made money and they all say, I'm bored. I got to do stuff. So they go out and start another company. They do business. They're sitting there, if nothing else, they're running their portfolio. And that takes a lot of time and energy. They're studying and they're doing that. They're working. You don't get to... I mean, especially if you're somebody who likes to do stuff and is engaged and is busy. Most of these entrepreneurs, they're not just stopping and vacationing. Matter of fact, many of the folks that are retiring that are really active people, whether they're 35 or 65, they're going nuts within a year or two most of them.
Kathryn: Yeah they're getting involved in nonprofits. They're starting to run boards, they're starting... They just have to do stuff because that's how we're designed.
Michael: And some of them are saying, as they're older, I wish I could do more because I still have gas in the tank, but I'm old. And the idea is that, well, you're still working. So what are you actually working for? Are you working for the freedom to be able to do the work you want to do? Why not start now? Why not build a Passion and Provision company? Why not grow that? Whether you are starting a new company or changing your company. And I'll tell you, it's not quick to change your company, but it can be done. It's been done lots of times in history and we've seen it at some level. And so, I mean, we've seen it huge for us. This is the process. This is Passion and Provision.
Michael: And if you are at all interested, if anyone listening to the sound of my voice is just like whoever hears this podcast at any point, if anything we've said resonates with you, you want to go to habovillage.com. You want to start looking around. You want to sign up for our email list. You want to start hearing more about this. We want to tell you more. And as of May 5th, 2020, there will be a book out on this subject.
Kathryn: 69 days from the moment we're recording this podcast. Probably not the moment it's posted, but-
Michael: And the book comes out and there's an audio book. And there's a course that opens once or twice a year, depending on the year that you can get into. And there are resources that we've been creating to help people fight these two evils of disengagement and business failure rate to find a place where you can actually say like that fourth grade, fifth grade version of myself said, I should be able to work on things and make money and enjoy them.
Michael: And I don't mind working hard. It's just, I should be able to enjoy them. And I should also be able to choose my customers at least at a certain level.
Kathryn: And not that guy.
Michael: And not that guy. And I have to confess later on down the road, I picked up a couple of... I mowed his lawn a couple of times in a few years later.
Kathryn: Been feeling guilty all this time, have you?
Michael: Well, but I like... I went... I did but it was like short term. It didn't last. And it was a waste of time. Folks, thank you so much for listening to us today. This is like, if this is the heart of this whole thing and some other day, we will actually talk about the process of an audio book, because I think for some of you, it might be really helpful. If you're thinking about writing a book or anything else, we'll cover that on a different episode. It took a left turn.
Kathryn: Well sometimes that happens.
Michael: It does.
Michael: So this is the HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: If this is at all interesting to you or you like listening to us banter as crazy people, please hit the subscribe button in Apple podcast and help spread the word. Talk about it and go to habovillage.com. Find the page that this podcast is on even and give us questions. Send them to firstname.lastname@example.org. We would love to see them. Have a great day.
Michael: Bye Bye.