Michael: Hello everyone, and welcome to the HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And for the next 30 minutes, you're going to listen to us banter about all things business when it comes to running a small business and looking for Passion and Provision.
Kathryn: We're going to cover everything in 30 minutes.
Michael: We are in-
Kathryn: I don't know. Strap on your seat belts.
Michael: We are in deep search of Passion and Provision on a regular basis, and sometimes it's elusive. I'm sure you can relate. Today we're going to talk about how sometimes, well, all the time we have gaps and cracks. That's just the way it is. And we don't always like to look at them. And when we have events that are major surprises, financial events or medical national events like COVID, things start to become a little bit more exposed and our cracks and our mistakes, our errors, our weaknesses that are close to the surface become seen. And it's like, really, when the tide goes out. When the tide's in, you can't see a lot of things. A lot of things are covered up. We just heard a quote recently about clams and that old saying, "Happy as clams."
Kathryn: Happy as a clam.
Michael: But the whole saying is, "Happy as a clam in high tide."
Kathryn: In high tide.
Michael: Because it turns out that, at least we've been told by the great Google, that clam hunting happens at low tide. And when the tide comes in, it's next to impossible to find them. So clams are really happy when the tide comes in because it covers them up. All their vulnerabilities are covered up by high tide. And that happens a lot when everything's cruising, we're at high tide in our business, money's coming in, clients are happening, the government is working with us for a moment.
Kathryn: We're allowed to be together.
Michael: We're allowed to be together. And the economy is flowing.
Kathryn: I sent out a picture to some friends a couple days ago when we were at a Giants game in 2017. And I was just like, "Hey, this was a great weekend. Miss you guys." And my friend responded, "Back in the days when we could be together in large groups and nobody worried about whether they were going to get sick or not." I just was laughing. It's like, "Oh, gosh."
Michael: And by the way, if anybody cares, San Francisco Giants, you may or may not like that. My wife's not even a Giants fan, but we went to the Giants game.
Kathryn: It's the closest stadium. You got to do what you got to do.
Michael: Because if you've been listening to this podcast long enough, you know Kathryn's a Dodgers fan. But alas, back to the subject.
Kathryn: Back to the subject.
Michael: When things are covered up and the economy, quite frankly, over the last several years... The Great Recession started to end around 2011, 2012, it really started recovering. 2010, maybe it started recovering. But by 2012, even 2013, we were back at it. The economy was going. The stock market was climbing. Cash was everywhere. We have clients that are in the financial advisory world and they have a saying in that industry and that is, everybody thinks they're amazing investors when the stock market's going up.
Kathryn: As though it's something they're doing. It's amazing.
Michael: Like, "Look it. Look at how good I am. I'm killing it."
Kathryn: "I got this."
Michael: "It's awesome."
Kathryn: "I got it."
Kathryn: And then bad things happen.
Michael: And then-
Kathryn: And suddenly they're like, "I have no idea what to do. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not, as it turns out, an expert in this investing and financial management thing."
Michael: And good investors are, when the market goes up, you're enjoying that. But when the market goes down, you don't ride the whole roller coaster of the market if you're a good investor and you've got a good portfolio and everything else. Because that's the goal of getting a good portfolio is that you protect yourself on the downside, take advantage of the upside, but you're not throwing out a lot of risk in your average portfolio. Well, it turns out that in business, we often struggle with this. We don't always know what's just below the surface. The comment the other day in the office was, "It turns out that a lot of businesses have a lot of icing on top, but the cake isn't that great." Which led us to a conversation.
Kathryn: We said, "It's more show than dough."
Michael: It's more show than dough. It's amazing what some bakers will do. Some bakers will actually take a plastic cake, put a bunch of frosting on it and put it in the showcase-
Kathryn: Oh, the display case? Yeah.
Michael: ... in the display case.
Kathryn: Because why waste a good cake?
Michael: Yeah, right? And it's nice and even and perfect and everything else, but it doesn't matter because what they're going to get is something that looks like that. That one stays longer and lasts longer in the case, and it doesn't go bad. Which led us to a conversation about my fourth grade cooking experiment. And in fourth grade, maybe fifth grade, I was at home. I've always loved to cook.
Kathryn: Which I'm grateful for.
Michael: Yeah. And I, by the way, if anybody knows, I cook at home. And if doesn't know, I'm the one that cooks at home. I like to cook and I like to grocery shop. It's a little strange, but-
Kathryn: I despise both, but I don't mind doing dishes, so it works out.
Michael: Yeah. We made a deal when we first started dating that if we ever got married, this would be the deal. And it's pretty much stuck for 27 years. So I was cooking for my mom and my dad and my sister, a little family four unit, and I was making chili and I was making cornbread and I was making my cornbread from scratch. None of this box stuff.
Kathryn: None of this box stuff.
Michael: I was a very sophisticated nine, 10 year old, and I was not going to go for box. The best ever. It was going to be from a recipe, scratch, everything else. So we all sat down to dinner and everything was great. I was so excited to have this meal for the family. And my cornbread was, I was telling you this the other day, my cornbread was amazing. It was beautiful. It had a beautiful high rise. It was nice and thick. There was a bright yellow to it. I mean, it looked amazing. We said Grace. Everybody dived in. And all of a sudden, the looks on people's faces when they started chewing their first bite of that cornbread.
Michael: Because what I had done is substituted baking powder for baking soda.
Kathryn: Oh no.
Michael: Actually, the other way around.
Kathryn: The other way around. Yeah.
Michael: I had replaced baking powder with baking soda. Baking soda-
Kathryn: Makes it rise. Looks beautiful.
Michael: For those of you who don't know anything about cooking, the baking soda is the soda, salty, yucky feeling. And by the way, when you put it in your mouth, it seems, I don't know if it did or not, but it feels and tastes like it's growing in your mouth.
Kathryn: And it won't stop.
Michael: It's almost like all of a sudden there's this extra reaction.
Kathryn: I can't get rid of it.
Michael: And when you're in fourth grade or elementary school and you're in the science fair and you're making a volcano, which many people have either done or seen, you have a couple of different chemicals out of the kitchen you use. And you use vinegar and you use baking soda.
Kathryn: But nobody's ever going to put that in their mouth. Because why would they?
Michael: Right. Exactly. You put just a hair of it in a couple of things in the kitchen. You do use it a little bit, but in small amounts. And I put all this... It was awful. Why do we tell this story? Why did this come up? Because we were talking about-
Kathryn: Yeah. We were talking about the fact that-
Michael: ... all show and no dough.
Kathryn: All show, no dough.
Michael: This idea that something can look great. Things can look great. Actually, your checking account can actually look really good. You've heard sayings in business like, "They're asset rich, cash poor." We've talked about that on this podcast.
Michael: These things are real deal. And unfortunately, and we're laughing about it, but some of you listening are going to go, "Oh, this hits way too close to home." And our goal is to encourage you and equip you and to help you grow and achieve a Passion and Provision company, whether you're repairing your company or building from a strong base, wherever you are. But this whole issue with COVID and the new recession and everything else, that's unlike anything, I think, we've seen in our generation-
Kathryn: It reveals.
Michael: ... it reveals stuff.
Kathryn: Well, and I think the illusion is that COVID alone is causing all of the problems. And there's certainly going to be some truth. There's some industries that, I mean, you cannot... It's pretty rough to run a travel agency, and restaurants obviously have been super impacted. So there's some industries where certainly the impact of a global pandemic and a shutdown is... You'd be hard pressed to figure out a way through that that's simple.
Michael: Well, and some people right now are thinking, "This is different than a recession." This is different than a lot of other things, because there are some people saying, "Look, this has nothing to do with the virus. This is all about a bunch of dumb people in authority around the world, right now in the United States, making decisions and screwing up everything. This is them being really bad at what they do." I'm sure they contribute. There is a virus. It does exist. There are people getting sick and 80% of the people have a mild reaction, from what the stats say. A very mild reaction. 20%, 20 out of every 100, have something opposite than a mild reaction. So some kind of a extreme reaction, a difficult reaction. And that's a lot. So trying to be careful and figuring it out. But what it is is, this is a surprise event.
Michael: We didn't see it coming. It came on us just like every recession, everything else. Yes, there's things that contribute to it. It contributed the dot com. There was things that contributed to it. The real estate boom. There was things that contributed to it falling apart in the Great Recession. Even the Great Depression. But we never know when they're coming. We never know when these things are going to fall apart. We just know that things cycle, things reset. Just like the seasons. Spring, summer, winter, fall. And they just all come and eventually we hit a winter. We hit a reset. And one of the things we've got to do is try and live in that four quadrant. You know that quadrant that Covey does? Covey talked about it. I don't think he invented it. But that was, do you live somewhere on the access of important and urgent?
Michael: And where most of us live is unimportant and urgent.
Kathryn: Right. So that's where the concept of the Tyranny of the Urgent, right?
Kathryn: So this is super urgent. I've got to get it done. But it's not something that ultimately transforms anything, moves the ball forward. It's just tasks. Lots and lots of tasks.
Michael: Lots and lots of tasks. And the most important place to live on a regular basis in that thing is to work on important things that aren't urgent. It is the hardest to do. It is the most important to do for your business in the short term and the long term, specifically the long term. But once you get in the habit and a rhythm of doing that, you catch up with yourself and all of a sudden you're dealing with things that are important and you don't get ripped around to the tyranny of the urgent nearly as much and sometimes not at all. Why is that important right now?
Kathryn: Well, so there's an old saying that crisis reveals character, right?
Michael: Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kathryn: It's not any... A crisis is going to reveal what's actually happening in your business. This kind of a crisis is going to do that. And while there are multiple crises along the way, there is nothing like a crisis to expose what actually has existed. It's not that it wasn't there. It's not that the gaps didn't exist. It's that the crisis brings them to the surface or pulls the tide back or peels the layer off that allows you to begin to see those in a little bit more glaring detail. I mean, we talk about, even in the book, right? It wasn't until we grew 400% that we realized there were gaps in our leadership.
Michael: There was some-
Kathryn: Where it was like, we know-
Michael: They became very painful, significant gaps in our leadership.
Kathryn: Yeah. We are not quite equipped to manage this particular level of business. And so that drives you, then, to one of two directions.
Kathryn: If I'm going to be super, super simple, either you go, "Yeah, I'm not going to have to do this. I got to do something different." Or you say, "I have to grow," and you start trying to figure out the resources to grow. And that sounds real easy, but it's not.
Michael: No. It's not.
Kathryn: Making those choices is hard.
Michael: And today is really a discussion about that. And we want to offer a little bit of help and direction on, because some of you are saying, "Yeah, yeah. I get it. What do I do?" Some of you are saying, "I've been trying to get past the place where we're not just barely getting by. We're not just barely surviving. And knowing that if the tide goes out, then we're going to be exposed. And yet the tide's going to go out and we're going to be exposed at some level." What it's going to do is, are we fortified? One of the conversations we're having around the office right now is resiliency. We've talked about it on the podcast and we're actually just about ready to launch our resiliency quiz so that you can take a quiz and get a basic assessment on how resilient your business is.
Michael: And we use it with an analogy of a ship. Can you withstand a stormy sea? How rough of the seas can you withstand before your ship gets thrown over? I watched a video on YouTube the other day of sailboat, close to a dock, close to appear, on a sunny day but the waves were a little high and their motor had gone out and there was not enough wind to push them away. And the waves hit them a couple of times and they tossed back and forth. And then all of a sudden a larger wave came in. It flipped that sailboat. It was like a 30 foot sailboat. It flipped it over and threw it into all the piers. It literally launched. Two of the people you could watch come out-
Kathryn: Oh, no.
Michael: ... of the boat and into the piers of the dock.
Kathryn: Holy moly.
Michael: And then the next shot, the next piece of video you saw, was actually the boat was rippling around in the waves, stuck between the telephone pole piers of the dock-
Kathryn: That is a bad day.
Michael: ... of the pier itself.
Kathryn: That is a bad day.
Michael: Oh my goodness. And it was like, "Okay, that boat was good enough far away. But when it was close to something dangerous like rocks or the pier, it couldn't handle. It wasn't built for that and it was dangerous." So what happens when these events happen and we've got this resiliency quiz that's going to come out and I'm excited about it, because I think it's going to be one more tool to help people see where they are. But when we look at this, that's what COVID's done, right? It's exposed. And unfortunately the reason 90% of businesses fail is because they are just barely surviving and when the market and everything's great and all that kind of stuff, they have enough cash in the bank, they have enough savings. They... I don't know. Anything... And there's enough people wandering around with money in their pockets so they can stay in business. But as soon as something like this happens... For instance, a good general rule of thumb is to have enough money that you could at least survive fully staffed and everything for a minimum of two months.
Kathryn: It's enough access to cash and/or capital that you can-
Michael: Cash or capital.
Kathryn: Yeah. So-
Michael: I mean, ideally it would be cash in the bank.
Kathryn: Ideally cash.
Michael: But many ways... I mean, one of our friends who's a banker, has been a banker for a very long time, she was telling-
Kathryn: Yeah. She has arguments with people like, "I don't want to pay 250 bucks a year to take out a line of credit." And she's like, "You have to have line of credit. You have a business. Something is going to go wrong. Have a line of credit." Right?
Michael: Have the margin. Have it there.
Kathryn: So you have some access to cash if you hit a crisis.
Michael: And it gives you a buffer. The goal is not to live in a lifestyle of that. But when you need it in an emergency, when you have to have that flow, it's there. But having enough money in the bank. And oftentimes you and I have... One of those cracks that exists for us as business leaders is that we don't understand money and finances enough. We talk about this in the book. We don't understand finances and money enough to be able to discover and see where those cracks are. So we really got like, "I don't really know where they are and I don't know where we're going to get hit." So an education and learning.
Michael: We did a pretty good job of putting some really basic stuff in the chapter, but it's amazing, as we saw it and did our research and sought counsel and stuff like that with people that are CFOs, people that have been outsourced CFOs, consultants for companies and things like that, they read it and went, "Yep. We see this in companies that are three and $400,000 a year. And we see this in companies that are 10 and $20 million a year."
Michael: All of these problems. So we pulled a bunch of that stuff and put that in there because it seemed basic, but it's amazing how many people don't have that understanding education. And then if they have it, they don't follow it. I mean, we've struggled with that. We're not perfect at it-
Kathryn: Oh gosh.
Michael: ... but we're continuing to go, "Oh okay, this is where we've got to grow. This is where we..." And when COVID hit, there are people in our industry, in the marketing and business consulting that are like, "Man, they can't afford the contract." We have friends that contracts disappeared on them. Boom. They all thought they had contracts for consulting. They all had thought they had contracts for leadership development.
Michael: They all had thought they had contracts for marketing. And they disappeared. And one of the things that was fortunate that we didn't, I want to say we fully understood this, but we didn't fully understand it. We understood some core principles that we were doing. And now we're starting to see the value of some of those core principles at a new level, as we dug our wells before we were thirsty. We do not try and milk every dime of profit out of our customers. We don't try and take every dime of profit or money out of the company for our own personal salaries. As owners, we try and pay ourselves a decent level. We have a good life. We want it to increase and are continuing to try and figure out how it increases. But we also have it.... I mean, we've been... Folks, this is a really relevant conversation. We're in the next loop of learning and trying to figure out how to continue to improve the quality of our leadership and improve the quality of our company.
Kathryn: Well, and here's the challenge. It's not the only one, but here's a challenge.
Michael: Here's a challenge. Here's the challenge.
Kathryn: That we're experiencing, certainly I'm experiencing [inaudible 00:00:18:56]... We just wrote this book, right, on how to build a Passion and Provision business. I mean, we've had people saying, "It's got everything."
Michael: Great accolades.
Kathryn: "Did you guys do anything other than just spend the last 18 years learning? How did you ever have time to serve clients?" I mean, we just-
Michael: People have said this to us.
Kathryn: Yes. So-
Michael: This is-
Michael: I mean, it's nice and thank you. But-
Kathryn: Yeah. So on one day you're like, "Wow, we're awesome." And then the next day you come up against something you really don't know. And we're talking to people in different industries and sectors that are so freaking smart and they know so much more than we do. And it's hard to not feel like, "Oh, I don't know that, but I can't ask for help because I just wrote a book that means I should know this stuff. I just created a company. I'm the one in charge. I shouldn't need help. I shouldn't need an outside voice." And we have argued in the book and we'll do it over and over again, you absolutely need outside voices. We borrow the term from our friend Terry walling. You cannot get to clarity alone. There are people who know things that you don't know that are smart enough to ask questions you don't even know ought to be asked and that is across multiple industries.
Kathryn: So even as we want to just super encourage you to be holistic in how you think and to gain at least minimum competency, working knowledge in the core areas of running a business, which is what the book is about. The fact of the matter is once you reach core minimum competency working knowledge, then you get to begin to grow in those areas. So I knew all that. We've said all that. We teach all that. But it's still hard personally because somehow there's an insecurity, a sense of, "But I ought to. But I can't." Whatever. A fear of change. A fear of exposure. Do I have to tell that person everything about my everything when it comes to this thing, whatever it is.
Michael: My everything about everything about this thing.
Michael: That was good.
Kathryn: I was being vague. I was being vulnerably vague.
Michael: Vulnerably vague.
Kathryn: Is that such a thing, as vulnerably vague?
Michael: I don't know. That's got a nice little-
Michael: ... VV thing going on there.
Kathryn: Anyway, it's challenging. We realize it's challenging. So here we are, we're in the middle of this season, and for some of you in the country and around the world, it's starting to ease up. We're in Northern California. We're in California. So for us, we're about to probably go into our next round of full lockdown, which is just so delightful to think about.
Kathryn: But this crisis, it's highlighting pain that we know exists, right? So you run statistics. We know that 80 to 90% of businesses fail in the first five years. That's been happening historically for a very long time. So the pandemic didn't cause that to happen. But the pandemic does certainly sometimes speed along things. It's probably doing that. And it's revealing things that have just been able to be hidden in the midst of a growing economy where things aren't being quite as pinched.
Michael: So some of those things, to be even clearer, because maybe you're saying, "Well, okay, get to the point," or whatever.
Kathryn: Now you're being not just vaguely vulnerable, you're just being vague.
Michael: You're just being vague. I mean, we're just talking around stuff. One of the points of today's podcast is really, we're trying to just raise awareness because we're in the midst of it. And we try and talk about things that are relevant to us and relevant to you. And we know that in the midst of all this, our weaknesses are being shown. And we're just trying to talk about that. We have to be able to acknowledge it. We have to be humble. The way forward is through humility. It really is. And the way we define humility is confidence properly placed. When I rock at something, if I really do rock at it, I rock at it. It's okay. Yes, I am good at this. If I'm not amazing at it, then it's okay to say I'm not amazing. And then there are different gradients of scales. It's not just you either are good or you're bad.
Michael: There are degrees of competency, and there are degrees of comfortableness and fluidity and elegance. But when we talk about these things, it's like, "Okay, what are we good at?" So here's some specific things. Do you have enough cash? We've talked about this, but let's make sure [inaudible 00:23:08]. This whole thing has revealed that the principle of cash to handle surprise events, surprise economic events, specifically... We have insurance for surprise events. Are you under-insured? Are you insured properly? You don't want to be over-insured. But quite frankly, I haven't met anybody yet who's over-insured. And most insurance companies don't want to actually let you be over-insured. So do you have enough insurance? I talked to a gentleman yesterday about just tuning some of this stuff up. He has 70 questions about 18 different areas of insurance you need to be thinking about if you own a business.
Kathryn: See, I'm overwhelmed already.
Kathryn: Oh no.
Michael: And you evaluate. You ask the questions, where's your liability, where's your risk and everything else. And can you take care of it because yes, you're going to be spending money. And some people say, "Oh, paying insurance is a waste of money." Folks, we've got horror stories. We have one friend who, her husband passed away right after he retired. It was a bummer of an event, ultimately bummer because they were getting ready to just enjoy that next season of life. And it turns out he had no life insurance. He took care of all the finances. He was very shrewd. He had rental property. He did all these things. He had no life insurance and she had not handled the finances. He had done it all for her. And he left her. It was a sudden death moment.
Michael: He didn't get cancer or anything. He died of a heart circulatory issue, stroke or something like that, quickly. And yeah, he hung around for a year, but she had to do everything. And finally it was over and she had to sell as much as she could because... And she's just contracted everything financially. He didn't do a good job taking care of things because he was going to die. But he probably didn't want to spend, like so many people, "I don't want to spend that extra money on that insurance. That's dumb. We don't need to insure. We don't need to waste money. We don't have to throw it away." Well, there are things that happen, surprise events and yes, maybe for 90% of the people or more, it doesn't have a problem. And running a small business is tough, but we want you to be wise.
Michael: We want you to have the place where there's peace and resilience in your organization. So do you have enough cash? Do you have enough credit? Are you insured properly? These are the things that this whole event are lessons that we're learning and we're just seeing them over and over again because when the market's going up, everybody's great. People are out spending cash. People are happy with their retirement accounts and they think, "I'm doing great." Then business can be really good. And even then business failure rates are there, but a lot of us, we're just like, "Yeah, this is great." But are you going to make it past the five year mark? Are you going to make it past the 10 year mark? We learned that there was, early on, that there were stats of companies surviving, right Kathryn, of three to five years. But there were stats of companies that didn't make it past 10 years and 15 years. The numbers went down significantly. But I think one of the reasons that the ten year thing happens is, on average, there is a recession every 10 years.
Kathryn: That's interesting. Never drew that corollary before.
Michael: So if there's a recession every 10 years on average, and there are numbers of people... Like if you're not strong enough... If you're strong enough to... We can handle the... If the water's flat and you're an idiot on the water in a boat and you've never done it-
Kathryn: You can still hurt yourself.
Michael: You can still hurt yourself.
Kathryn: But the odds are lower.
Michael: The wind starts to blow and the chop starts to come up. It becomes more and more dangerous and you need more skill, but you can still get by without being a genius at anything. But if you run into a big storm, you need to know what you're doing. You need to know how to sail and you need a big enough ship that's going to control it. And if you're a small company, you can give yourself that mass by having some of these things to protect you.
Michael: It's like having one of those pontoon boats where the pontoons are way out there. So when the wind blows a lot, it's a lot harder. It actually keeps the sailboat from tipping over and they can race more and everything else. Those kinds of things are super important. And I want you to all think about it and you're going to say, "Well, what do I do? Where do I go?" Well, one of the things is, that's one of the reasons we wrote the book. The book is a holistic model to start looking at all the different places to make your company stronger, more resilient, like those big trees that can move with the storms and don't just snap when the winds turn into 90 miles an hour. And then from there, you can recover and grow again.
Michael: You want to survive the storms. And if you can survive the storms and thrive when there's no storms, then it's ideal. And that's what Passion and Provision is about. And really trying to continue to do that. If you were following us and working with us on this podcast and listening or reading the book or anything, you know that we're on the journey with you. We just are firm believers in wherever you are on the journey, turn around and do what you can to help anybody else behind you come forward.
Kathryn: Yeah. And by the way, if you really hate to read but you have learned to love our voices because you follow this podcast-
Michael: Oh, come on.
Kathryn: ... the Audible was finally put up on Amazon.
Michael: Woop woop woop!
Kathryn: So you can actually now get the Audible version, which is fun.
Michael: The audio version on audible-
Kathryn: On Audible.
Michael: ... dot com. Or though-
Kathryn: Yeah. Or amazon.com.
Michael: ... Amazon. You can get the Audible also.
Michael: You know what-
Kathryn: Voiced by us.
Michael: ... I want to say? I want to leave our listeners today with something that's encouraging. How would you encourage them today after this incredible wet blanket of, "Guess what? Let's look at all your wounds and pain and stupidity."
Kathryn: That's a good question. I would want to encourage you and myself that even when those moments hit, where you're overwhelmed and you know you need help, but you're scared or the gaps have absolutely had a light shining on them and you're like, "Oh my gosh, my gaps," you have grown in the past. You have changed in the past. You have faced things in the past and you have come beyond them. So I want to encourage you to look backwards and to remind yourself of the times when you hit something that you thought you weren't going to survive. And the fact that you're hearing my voice means that you did. So I want you to just take inventory and remind yourself of what got you here, knowing that you can face and solve things that have come up in your life, and so you can face and solve what is currently happening.
Michael: Some of the skills you've developed over the years, you actually can use them to take you from... They helped you get here and they can help you get to the next place. Those are some of them. Is that ability... You've learned resiliency. You've learned strength. You've learned survival skills. You can survive this. And some of you will survive it by the same company you're in, is going to make it and you're going to move forward. Some of you are going, "Based on the way this is all falling out in the industry and everything, I don't know if my industry or my business can survive." Maybe not. Maybe not.
Kathryn: But you will.
Michael: But you will. And you'll live to fight another day.
Kathryn: And you'll build stronger and smarter.
Michael: And you just need to go back and get another boat and head out if that's what you believe you're called to, because that's what... Entrepreneurs live in this world where things happen and mistakes happen. And we're, just so you know, we're in the midst of this with you. We're struggling with our own stuff and looking and doing self-evaluations because self-evaluations are hard. Looking at the cracks are hard. It's not hard looking at all the stuff that's awesome.
Kathryn: I'm just going to go reread the transcript of that guy that said we were amazing. That's what I'm going to do.
Michael: You're going to do that?
Michael: All right. Folks, find people around you that are cheerleaders. People believe in you. And listen to them, but don't be caught up in the delusion of just listening to all the good things. Find out ways you can grow. And go get our book. The book is Fulfilled: A Passion & Provision Strategy for Building Companies with Profit, Purpose & Legacy. It's a really good book. It talks about philosophy and there's a lot of really practical, "This is how you do it." It's a manual. A mini MBA, some have said. It was the book we wish we had and now we have it and we're continuing to use it to encourage you and equip you. And there's lots of other resources that are mentioned in it. So go out and get that.
Michael: You can get it at fulfilledthebook.com. And there's also some free resources that come along with the book. Or you can get it on Amazon. And if you like this podcast, hit like. Subscribe. Tell somebody else about it. We would really appreciate it. And we hope you have a great day. No matter what's going on, no matter how it's going, we hope you find some reason to find joy and appreciate where you are and what you have. So, I'm Michael Redman.
Kathryn: And I'm Kathryn Redman.
Michael: And this is the HaBO Village podcast. Have a great week.