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How to Avoid the Most Common Leadership Mistakes in Your Business - With Guest, Jon Dwoskin [Podcast]

Episode 118: Michael and Kathryn interview business coach and author, Jon Dwoskin, about common mistakes business leaders make, how to hire successfully, and tips on your own leadership development. If you want to know what it takes to get the most out of a business coach, have struggled to hire well, or just need some encouragement and life advice, then this episode is for you!

Jon Dwoskin


In This Episode You Will...

  • Discover how Jon decided to start his own business and his advice for other entrepreneurs.
  • Find out what you should really focus on if you are a small business that needs to hire (especially for a management position).
  • Learn how to maximize a business coaching experience so both you and your company can actually grow.
“Surrender to the process. You have to be ready and willing to do the work. You have to be the one who executes and implements it. You want to let go of your ego- stop trying to be the coach, and let yourself be coached."
- Jon Dwoskin

Resiliency Quiz

References:

The Jon Dwoskin Experience

 

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Michael:
              Hello and welcome to the HaBO Village podcast. I'm Michael Redman.


Kathryn:
               And I'm Kathryn Redman.


Michael:
              And today we have a very special guest. Kathryn, tell the people what they've won.


Kathryn:
               They have won 45 minutes on the air with Mr. Jon Dwoskin. Is that how you spell it or say it? Dwoskin.


Jon:
        Yeah, Jon Dwoskin.


Kathryn:
               John Dwoskin. Dwoskin. That is a great name. And Jon runs something called Jon The Dwoskin Experience and is the founder of that. He's recently turned 43. His bio says so.


Jon:
        I'm 48 though. I should probably change that.


Kathryn:
               I wish you do that.


Jon:
        Because when I started my business, I just turned 43.


Michael:
              I'm wondering.


Kathryn:
               Got to update that bio.


Michael:
              Yeah. Should we start over? Or are we good? Do we [crosstalk 00:00:45] keep rolling?


Kathryn:
               I think it's fine.


Michael:
              43, 48?


Jon:
        I will keep rolling.


Kathryn:
               Absolutely.


Michael:
              Five years just passed [crosstalk 00:00:50]?


Kathryn:
               John is five years more experienced than he was-


Michael:
              Two minutes ago.


Kathryn:
               Two minutes ago. It's amazing. I'm super excited. One of the things I love about your bio is it says that... When you turn 43, I'm assuming, you finally made a career out of being yourself.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Kathryn:
               So that'll be fun to talk a little bit about that. But John is an executive advisor, a business coach and then as I said, the founder and CEO of The Jon Dwoskin Experience and he grows businesses big, very big.


Jon:
        Yes. Yes.


Kathryn:
               So that's the formal introduction. Jon, welcome to the show. We're so happy to be talking with you


Jon:
        Thanks guys. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. You guys having me on the show today.


Michael:
              Well, we're glad you're here. We had a great time talking with you a while back and I'm looking forward to carrying on the conversation.


Jon:
        Yeah. I had a great time having you guys on my show, The THINK Business podcast. It was great.


Michael:
              Okay. I think we just start with, what does it mean to make a living out of being yourself?


Jon:
        Well, I'm not really a corporate minded person. I like to be direct and not kind of play politics. Although when I was in corporate America, I felt like I became a master of politicking and playing the game. I did a great, I think, but I didn't enjoy it. It's not fulfilling to me to do it. I think you kind of find yourself, or at least I found myself like 20, some percent of my day was talking to this higher up and making sure that I positioned myself one way, because I had to get off the phone with him in 30 seconds because you don't want to talk to this person too long or you get yourself in trouble and then you have to talk to this person and this person is asking you something about your boss of which you can't say anything, because then you'll get that person in trouble. Then you'll really get yourself in trouble [crosstalk 00:02:32].


Jon:
        Everything's like this big game and everybody's seems to be just... I don't know, it's just not my thing. And then when you speak your mind, people are like, "Whoa, why are you saying that?" Well, you asked me for the truth and then I speak it. And then that's not what you want to hear. So as a business coach, as somebody who I love what I do, I feel like I'm in complete alignment with exactly that. I feel like I'm in my purpose. I can work with people and I don't have to filter anything. I mean, I articulated in a way that I know that they can hear it as the receiver, but I don't need to filter anything. I'm not worried about getting fired because I'm in a corporate job or aligning with the wrong people, which puts you in a bad position... That bullsh*t is not my style. And so I can work with amazing people, amazing companies, do great things, work with them in groups or one-on-one and they crave and want my feedback, not my bullsh*t.


Jon:
        And so, I love it. So I can just be myself. I don't feel like I'm betraying myself or not being myself or I just kind of surrender to the process. I allow things to flow through me as a coach. I feel in a way I can kind of channel certain things that when I'm in my zone, talking to clients and working with them and strategizing with them and I can't have a filter or I can't do my work.


Kathryn:
               So it's really fun to be paid, to tell the truth.


Jon:
        Yeah, you're right.


Kathryn:
               I mean, you hired me to tell you what we can work on. So there's no point in me pretending that everything is good or I would not need to be in the room. Right?


Jon:
        Right.


Kathryn:
               It is fun to be able to do that.


Jon:
        Yeah. And I think I'm really good at... My intuition is very high, so I'm good at seeing and hearing what's not being heard or said. People will tell me things and I'm like, "Well, this is what I'm hearing and seeing." And they're like, "What? I can't believe you're hearing that." But that's because I can just be myself and say what I'm picking up on. Not just, blah blah blah.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. Yeah, that's really fun.


Michael:
              Yeah. It's nice to work in your gifts and to be able to be in that sweet spot and with gifts... Now, one of the things... As I was reading more and more about your bio and stuff like that, the issue of dyslexia came up, which I can relate to. I didn't know I had dyslexia for a very long time. How did you come across figuring that out? And then what did you do to start dealing with that?


Jon:
        Well, I always knew I learned differently and I couldn't figure out how that was. And when I was 30, 31, I sold commercial real estate. I sold apartment buildings and I had a hundred million dollars worth of listings to about five different properties that I had gotten. And I had worked on them like hundreds of hours prepping them to go to market. And I was on a conference call to my Chicago office. I was in Detroit promoting the deals and I knew the deals like the back of my hand. But I got on the call. It was like an early morning call. And people started asking me questions and I couldn't remember anything about the properties. I couldn't remember.


Jon:
        And so there was actually static on the call and I... Almost like an anxiety attack, like I couldn't remember anything. And I was like the expert of these deals.


Michael:
              Huh.


Jon:
        And I knew everything, but I couldn't retrieve it. And so I read a long time ago in... Many, many years ago, in You Can Negotiate Anything by Herb Cohen, that if you hang up on yourself talking, nobody would think that there's anything wrong with that. And so if you lose control of a call, hang up on yourself talking. So I thought I've lost control of this call. I'm about to lose all my credibility. And somebody asks me a question and I was so anxious that I started speaking and hung up on myself speaking and then basically blamed the static and the phone went dead. And so I sent an email, and said, "Hey, if anybody has any questions, just have him call me."


Jon:
        So I could collect myself and get back to some center. So I called my shrink after, and I need something... I don't know if I have ADD, I don't know if I have ADHD. I don't know what's going on, but I need an IQ test to understand what's going on with me. So I took a five day test. It was like two hours a day-


Michael:
              Okay.


Jon:
        With him. At the end of it, he said, you should buy a book called Living With Dyslexia. So I said, "Well, for who?" He said, "For you." Because the way it works for me is just retrieval and things of that nature. And you know, just different ways of my phonics and retrieval and retention of things. That's kind of where mine shows itself. So I know how I learn now. So I'm more auditory than I am visual. When I hear things, my retention goes up significantly. I have to prep for things so I can kind of understand it. Just even a glance can get myself back into full remembrance of kind of what I need to remember. But again, going back to that case in real estate, I hadn't looked at the stuff from like the day before to the morning of, and I realized I needed to like glance at it so my brain could do it.


Jon:
        So I was just kind of going off the cuff because I thought I knew it. It's interesting, because I can be off the cuff on podcasts, in interviews, in tips and things of that that I know really well, that I allow to kind of flow through me. But the more I have learned to have my cheat sheets, write everything down and just kind of have it work for me, then it's never really been a hindrance in my life. If anything, I think it's made me a lot more out of the box thinking more creative and hasn't made me kind of settle.


Michael:
              I like it.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. It's really good.


Michael:
              [crosstalk 00:08:11].


Jon:
        That's my story.


Michael:
              Yeah. No, that's good. And it's funny. The auditory part, I can really relate to a lot.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              I consume a lot of the books on auditory and audio books. I love... My audible account is super old.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              But I'll drive around and I have visual memories of... There'll be something in the book and I can tell you what street corner I was at when I heard that part of the book.


Jon:
        Yeah. Me too.


Michael:
              It's kind of [crosstalk 00:08:39]. So... Oh, really? Then you'd kind of go, "Okay. Yeah, I remember that. And that's when that happened", and [crosstalk 00:08:46].


Jon:
        Yeah. Sometimes I'll read a book and then three hours later or the next day, I can't remember what the book was about, but I knew what it was about, and then I'll be in a podcast interview or I'll be talking, I'll be at a meeting, and then like... I mean, so much information will download into my head about that specific book, but in the moment. So I always feel kind of like, you know, I feed myself with so much information and then when it's ready to present itself, it typically does. And if I need it, I just go back and kind of reference it or reference my notes to reference the book or-


Michael:
              Yeah.


Jon:
        And then it kind of all comes back to me.


Kathryn:
               Yeah.


Michael:
              So when you're working with clients, when you're working with leaders, do you find that there are themes that come up over and over again, that are extremely common themes?


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              What are some of those themes?


Jon:
        I think one of the themes are realizing that they need the right people to grow. If you want to grow a great organization, you need great people, period. And a lot of times people settle like with certain managers, and you can't do that. You cannot settle... The bad manager will take down your company and will stunt your growth. There's nothing good that comes out of it so you can't compromise them. Your managers across the board should be 10 out of 10s or 12 out of 10s. And if you have the systems and the processes and the trainings and the retention in place that a good manager can move that forward and they're not difficult to manage. If your manager is difficult to manage, then they're the wrong manager, typically.


Kathryn:
               So let me ask you a question about that. So let's pretend that you are working with a company that's small. So owner run business, maybe they have 15 employees, 20 employees, and they're ready to hire their first sort of management position. Right?


Michael:
              First tier level.


Kathryn:
               For the very first high level manager, because they've been direct to their staff the whole time. How would you advise them to go about finding that person?


Jon:
        Well, first of all, I'm going to back up-


Kathryn:
               Okay.


Jon:
        Getting into that question, because I think another thing that most leaders... Something that comes up is crystallizing and clarifying their vision. And most people, especially as we record this, I don't know when it's going to air, but as of now, it's July 23rd, 2020. We are in the middle of COVID and I'm in Detroit, you're in California. You guys went backwards, which kind of seem the same. And right now, you must as a leader re-clarify and reset your three year vision. You must.


Kathryn:
               Yeah, absolutely.


Jon:
        And you must reclarify your values and your vision must be specific. It must be measurable, must be clear, must be concise, no differently than a blueprint if you're going to build a house. And so as you reverse engineer, whatever that mission, vision, and values are, the manager you hire has to be in alignment with that. They have to be able to see your vision. They have to be able to understand your vision in complete clarity. And then they have to be able to execute and implement consistently your vision, while also connecting with people and inspiring and bringing the best out of people to be their best and lift them up and inspire them to be their best and hold people accountable. And so when you're looking for someone, their accountability, effective communication, empathy, gratitude, accountability, those are all key people. So you need people who can create an emotional connection, but also hold people accountable.


Jon:
        So what happens is, a lot of times people will interview people that were really good at their jobs, make them a manager, they're disconnected from the vision. They're disconnected from a lot of the other things we talked about and they can't figure out why they're spending 20% of their day frustrated or reprimanding the manager to get them to do what they should do, but really you need to hire from the outside and make sure that person fits in with your culture of a lot of the things that I just kind of went through.


Kathryn:
               Good. Yeah, it's good. Fun to hear. Fun to hear [crosstalk 00:12:47] first.


Michael:
              How do you test and look for somebody who has empathy?


Jon:
        I think you can just sense it and feel it. I mean, you either are an empathetic person or you're not. I know some people who were raised by parents who had no empathy and they have no empathy. I know some people who were raised from parents who had a ton of empathy and they still have no empathy. And I think it's either it's in your heart or it's not in your heart. Right? And some people have empathy for different things. Meaning, sometimes people may not have empathy for people because their tolerance of people is low. Right? So those aren't good managers. My tolerance for people is very high. I can have empathy. I can connect with people as a manager. I was a manager for a long time, but there's other people who could never be a manager and would have no empathy.


Jon:
        They'd be like, "Why the hell are these people doing this? I have no empathy." Like get it together where they have empathy for other things in clients. And so I think there's different levels of people and there's different levels of empathy. From a business standpoint, you need to make sure that the person who's ever leading... A leader has to have empathy for all of their people. Otherwise you have turnover and you have people who end up not liking the leadership teams. You have just functional leader teams. I see organizations all the time where the leader has no empathy. And so the leadership teams typically hate that person, that spills down to the company and then the culture is affected. And so if the leader doesn't have empathy for the collective, then in my opinion, culture can never be what you really want it to be.


Michael:
              Yeah, that's good. I like it a lot. And it is, it's powerful tool. I want an empathy test and empathy... Like put it on the forehead and it says, empathetic or not. Like pregnancy test, an empathy test go pee on this test kit.


Jon:
        There's a lot of personality tests, but I don't know if they do empathy, but they do other things that may allocate that.


Michael:
              Yeah. We use the Myers-Briggs a lot. The disc a lot, but neither one of them will show empathy.


Jon:
        Yeah. They will show empathy.


Michael:
              They can show if you're an *sshole or not but [crosstalk 00:14:53]?


Jon:
        They do show if you're an *sshole.


Kathryn:
               It's so true.


Michael:
              Maybe we can interpret. If you're not an *sshole, maybe you have empathy.


Jon:
        Right. Exactly.


Kathryn:
               Maybe. That's funny. Reverse engineer that's [crosstalk 00:15:05]


Michael:
              Okay. So what's another theme that you see with your leaders that you're working with?


Jon:
        Well, I think also a theme that people need is that they need to train their people more and they don't have the systems in place or the people in place to actually train. And they don't understand the connection of training with retention. It's very, very important. I don't know why they don't see it or they see it, but choose to not sometimes invest in it. And you really need to... Especially today, I mean, millennials, statistically show, they stay at jobs three years, then Gen Zs they don't really have stats on that, at least that I know of yet. And I think it's too young to even say because I haven't been in the workforce workforce-


Michael:
              Right.


Jon:
        Yet. But training people, when you spend all this time recruiting and you spend time on recruiters or you have in-house recruiters and you bring people in and you onboard them.


Jon:
        But there's a big difference between onboarding and training. Training should never stop. That's how people always get better and stop being complacent. And so managers need to be able to train, need to role play, training needs to becoming, speakers need to becoming in. You need to be training your people. That's what retains them, right? Because you're investing in them. And so I see that that's a big theme that people know they need, but there's a disconnect on how to actually implement it.


Kathryn:
               Yeah.


Michael:
              Well, it's critical because you're investing in your people. If you want them to grow, if you want them to expand, you want people who want to grow and you want people who are proactive at it. But more often than not, they're busy doing their stuff. The average person isn't proactive at learning. They may want to, they may enjoy it, but they're not going home and read the book to help improve your company. So whatever you can do, in our experience, to continue to feed them. And if they are people who are learners, but you're giving them those opportunities, they'll absorb it. They'll take it. They'll run with it. Now, they usually will try and do the best they can to figure out, "Okay, how do I implement this and put this in my world?" And they know that you care about them.


Jon:
        Correct. And they got to know that you care about them, and that you know that they believe that they matter. And the other issue is that sometimes I work with leaders, I work with a lot of great leaders. Occasionally I work with a leader who everybody just hates. Right? And so they'll say, "Everybody hates me and I don't know why." And then you get to know that person, and you're like, "Well, I kind of know why. I kind of know why."


Kathryn:
               I kind of hate you now too.


Jon:
        And then there's the people that really evolved and grow. And then there's the people that evolve and grow and go right back to who they were. And so, I think, you have to be willing to always evolve your level of awareness. I think you always have to be realizing that the level of consciousness that got anywhere to where they are, will not get them to where they want to be. And you've got to always be growing and shifting your mindset and understanding different perspectives and mindsets of other people because there's five generations of people in companies today. And so there needs to be an openness of being able to really emotionally connect to people, because that's the type of companies that people want. Hire-centered companies that are also driven, have a vision, have a purpose, are socially conscious and will make people better and hold them accountable to do just that.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. That's good.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              Yeah. And whether it's a small business, medium sized business, large business, it doesn't matter. People want that. They want to know that they're making a contribution, that their purpose is valued, that somebody cares about them.


Jon:
        Correct.


Michael:
              So just critical about being human.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              All right. So yesterday we had a client in the office and one of the things we were talking about is realizing that they had a challenge with folks sticking around in the first couple of three appointments. They were service based and they have recurring appointments, stuff like that. And one of the things we talked about was actually helping people realize, "How do I engage?" Now, turns out this is a counseling group. Has about 30 counselors and really trying to educate people on, "They've never been to a counselor before, how do I interact with that?" So I was thinking about that. I was thinking about our conversation today. And I was wondering, from your perspective, talk to our guests because they're all business leaders, but many of them have never had a coach; a business coach, a leadership coach. If they're going to go find one, let's assume they found a good one. What do you think are the top two or three things that they need to know to optimally engage with this person and get the most out of that relationship?


Jon:
        Yeah. Well, one, I think there needs to be a synergy and an energy and a connection that they just feel. So they got to listen to their gut. That's number one. Number two, they got to do their research and talk to, I would say, a minimum of three coaches. Unless they've been referred to you and the person just knows they want to work with you, but if they're looking, then they should do their due diligence to see the type of different people that are out there. Three, in my opinion, there's all different types of coaches. There's life coaches, there's business coaches. I'm a business coach. I'm a business coach that has been in business, started and sold a business, grown other businesses, restructured businesses. So I'm a business coach that's actually been in business. I'm not just selling a system.


Jon:
        Everything I do is customized. And so to me, you want to find a coach that can customize something to your DNA, who understands and gets you. I've interviewed a lot of coaches at my show, and you know, there's coaches that I've interviewed that coach just women and there's coaches that I coach that just interview people who are over 50 and they're a career coach. All these different types of coaches. So there's some niches. But I think at the end of the day, once you pick a coach, you have to do a couple of things. One surrender to the process. Right? Two, you have to be ready and willing to do the work because it's a lot of work. Because as you raised your level of awareness and your mindset and your consciousness, the stuff that you work on, you have to be the one that actually executes and implements it.


Jon:
        And you want to let go of your ego and stop trying to be the coach and allow yourself to be coached. And then you got to be on the same page with your coach of the results that you want and what the biggest gap issue and where your biggest stuck is. Because a coach would get you unstuck. I have two business coaches that I've had for a long, long time. I had one prior to that for 13, 14 years who passed away. I always have two business coaches. And I had this one business coach for like two months. And it was like, every time I talked to them, every two weeks, we were talking about the same thing. And I was like, "Well, I want to go deeper, like here." They're like, "No, we got to do this." I was like, "I know, but I need..." They're like, they won't flow with me. You know what I'm saying?


Jon:
        And it was like, they were following a system, and that wasn't for me. I coach customize and I need customize. And so to me, systems can be great. There's EOS out there, that a lot of people use and that's like a very cut and dry system. Right? I have a lot of clients that use EOS and then I'm still the coach because we do totally different things. And so to me, you got to do kind of those things and then commit to consistency and do no less than one year. Because otherwise it's not going to work. If somebody comes to me, "Hey, I need an hour of your time", I charge them like quadruple what I would normally charge someone, because I'm not here in business to give you an hour of my time.


Jon:
        And if you only need an hour, it's going to take way more energy and I'm going to give you ideas. And a lot of people will say, no. They'll say, "Hey, I've been struggling with something for 10 years. I just need an hour of your time." I'm like, "All right. Well, I'm happy to do that. Let's set up a time. Or are we doing this... By the way, it's going to be X amount of dollars." It's like, "I can't pay that for a cup of coffee." I say, "Well, you're asking me to take all my energy, listen to your last 10, 15 years of your life and give you advice to streamline something that you can do, start or grow and get out of your stuck zone and grow a business. So you can make a ton of money for a cup of coffee. No, I'm not doing it."


Michael:
              I mean, it's simple. I mean, it's just an hour.


Jon:
        Right it is an hour. So struggle with it for another 10 years and then call me in another year." Right.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Jon:
        And so my point of that is you got to be willing to invest in yourself. If you're not willing to invest in yourself, then a coach isn't going to invest in you. And that's what I say to people. If you're not willing to invest in yourself, why should I? Why should I invest in you, when you won't invest in yourself? It doesn't make sense. I can't help you.


Michael:
              I like it.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              No, it's good. And it's important because we say over and over again, to our listeners, get a leadership coach. If there's one thing you can do in your leadership growth and to grow... You can read books and that's good. And I'm glad you're a learner, but if you don't have somebody helping you read that label from the outside and saying, "Okay, this is what I see. This is what's going on." And somebody to hold you accountable, the growth is going to... If there is growth, it's going to be much slower.


Jon:
        Correct. Much slower. Like I always tell people, "You can do what I do. I can do in three months, but you, it's going to take you three to five years." So you decide. But there's also, I just want to talk about investing [inaudible 00:24:27] in yourself. And also, I believe in just the universal law, the universal energy of exchange. Like there needs to be an exchange. I find I cannot do my work... Back in the beginning when I started my career, I would help people that like, "Oh, hi. I can't afford you, but can you just help me for 10 minutes?" And I give them an idea that would be amazing. And then they'd go off and I'm like, "Wait, I just don't even feel good about that." So there needs to be an energy exchange that without it, I find I can't even do my work.


Jon:
        And it's not so much about the money as it is about the energy exchange.


Michael:
              Sure. Absolutely.


Jon:
        I can't surrender and kind of channel the way I do and give people my advice and my guidance and listen so as intensely as I do, if they're not bringing to the table the same level of energy that I am, because I typically in those situations what I found is I want it more for them than they do. And if that is the case, I'm exerting not only triple the amount of energy, but I'm also giving it away for free. So I don't do that anymore.


Michael:
              Do you find that you get discouraged periodically working with folks? Because you want it so much more than they do?


Jon:
        No. I let go.


Michael:
              Did you have to learn to let go?


Jon:
        I don't get discouraged because I know... Like when I'm working with a client, I type out everything that we're talking about. Especially over Zoom and conference call. And so my notes, I can type as fast as I can talk and think.


Michael:
              Wow.


Kathryn:
               Lucky you.


Jon:
        Their notes when they're done with me, even if it's a 15 minute sprint call, that I do a lot with a lot of clients are tremendous. There's always kind of like review of the week, a theme for the week or two weeks, whatever it is. And so if they don't do it... Because I do everything I can to push the accountability onto them. So I don't get discouraged. If anything, I'll say to a client, "You know what? We're talking once a week, we should probably talk every two weeks. Because you need more time to implement. You're getting over coach right now. So you need space. If you need more time, let me know."


Michael:
              No, it's good.


Kathryn:
               It's really good.


Jon:
        I'm not a magician. I always tell people, I'm really great at what I do, but I'm not a magician.


Michael:
              Not a magician?


Jon:
        I'm not a magician.


Michael:
              You just [crosstalk 00:26:41] thin air.


Jon:
        Correct. Boom. Right.


Michael:
              I want to make you wealthy.


Kathryn:
               But with no input from you. Okay. So backing up, I don't know, three, five plus years, whatever. What was the hardest part for you about starting your own business after being in corporate America? You know, kind of having that security blanket of a paycheck and then launching out on your own. What was the hardest part for you?


Jon:
        Well, the hardest part was not actually the moment I started the company. The hardest part was probably the year and a half prior to starting the company. And just the mental peace, where I was in a career that I was not happy. I was not fulfilled. And I knew... Like I had this business plan created, but I couldn't transition. I couldn't make the jump. Right? I felt like I was stuck. Right? And so I had this business coach, his name was [Jules Rapaport 00:00:27:37], he was the greatest. And this was like in an October of... I can't remember the exact year, but... I'm not like one of those people like, "Oh, and in August of two... You know, I can't remember like they, you know...


Kathryn:
               August 12.


Jon:
        How do you remember? People would be, "Oh, and this was [inaudible 00:27:53]", and so, but it was anyway, [inaudible 00:27:54].


Jon:
        He goes, "You know what? I'm f*cking done listening to you talk about how miserable you are. Give me an exact date of when you're quitting."


Michael:
              Oh, good.


Kathryn:
               There you go.


Jon:
        So I said, "Okay, March of next year." And it was like October, November. And so I ended up resigning like the first week in April. But he forced my feet to the fire and it was great. I'm always so grateful and thankful of that. And then as I was getting ready to start this company, I got offered an opportunity completely. You know, I don't believe in coincidences, but coincidentally, to go in-house for a year and help restructure a company. And so I chose to do that because I thought it'd be a great next move. Right? Just kind of do this. And it was. It was an amazing experience. It was an amazing company, still good friends of mine today.


Jon:
        And I did that for a year. And then when that was done, I just felt right. Right? It was just kind of like everything was in alignment. I felt like I had the confidence and the courage and I don't look back with any regret of how the path went because it led me to where I am today. But the hardest part was just like, I needed that coach. I needed Jules, my coach. I needed him to just push me. Right? And so the hardest part was just talking about it and talking about it and talking about it, without finally somebody telling me, finally, "enough." And then I'm a big believer that when you're in alignment, everything flows. So the moment I pressed live, June 1st, five years ago on social media, I felt like I was in complete alignment with my career and everything just started growing and growing and growing and growing.


Jon:
        So since I've been in alignment with my career, I wouldn't say any of it has been hard. It hasn't been hard. I'm not saying it's been easy. I'm not saying I don't work my ass off. I do. I mean, you can go to my website and see my social platform. I mean, I'm providing new content every single day and working with clients all over the country internationally as well. And I'm completely driven to grow my business, but I surrender and allow things to kind of flow through me and they just download. And I just keep on growing and growing and doing my thing.


Kathryn:
               That's cool.


Michael:
              All right. I just looked at the clock and realized this has been clicking by like that. This has been a great conversation. And we're like, "Wow. What happened to the time?" So...


Jon:
        It's fun talking to you guys. I felt the same way when you were at my show. I mean, I loved our talk. Yeah.


Michael:
              Oh nice. It was really good. I was like, "Oh, this is great." And when it got to the end, I was kind of sad when we were on your show.


Jon:
        I have your book. I have your book. Right here.


Michael:
              Hey, there it is, Fulfilled.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Michael:
              You use it as a doorstop yet?


Jon:
        [crosstalk 00:30:37] but I have it in my office, so I can pull it out. And it's one of these books I want to just kind of take out and read. I have a couple of books that I'm finishing up right now. It's in my next read pile.


Kathryn:
               Seneque.


Jon:
        Seneque.


Michael:
              Well, I appreciate it being on your panel and I will be very curious to hear your honest opinion.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Kathryn:
               Absolutely.


Michael:
              [inaudible 00:30:57].


Jon:
        Right. I read it and I hated it. I have not read it. I'm joking.


Michael:
              Everybody needs a one star rating on Amazon.


Jon:
        I actually had somebody bash my book on Amazon. Like I've got all these great ratings and then someone wrote that they didn't like my book. And I was like, What?


Michael:
              How could you not like my book?


Jon:
        How could you not like my book? Right.


Kathryn:
               What's not like?


Michael:
              I poured my soul into this book. How you not [inaudible 00:31:22]


Jon:
        I know. I know. Yeah.


Michael:
              So I just want to say, thanks for joining us today.


Jon:
        Thank you guys.


Michael:
              I think this is one of the things that I think down the road, we should do it again. Because if you'd be willing, this is really been fun. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Jon Dwoskin. He has an immense amount of content. As he was talking about his social media, his website, you can find him out there. We'll have a link on the page, on our website. And he's just got a lot of pieces and parts and he does this daily little tips. What is it? Two minutes, three minutes? For-


Jon:
        I don't do the tips daily, so much what I do live broadcasts every single day. I do live podcast Monday through Friday and all social media. And I do my podcast, THINK Business, is seven days a week. I have another episode THINK Sales, which is Friday mornings with a cohost. And we interview a guest at 8:30 AM Eastern. I have another series coming out called THINK Like a CEO, live and starting in August/September, every morning, you can check my website for details. There'll be a 15 minute workshop every Monday through Friday through the end of the year.


Kathryn:
               So essentially, John you've also created a cloning company somewhere and you're just replicating versions of yourself.


Jon:
        Oh, I have a great team. I have a great team.


Kathryn:
               Wow.


Jon:
        Yeah.


Kathryn:
               That is a lot.


Jon:
        You know, I've been building content for 30 years and having been building it for the last five-


Michael:
              And you really enjoy it. Don't you?


Jon:
        I love it. Yeah.


Michael:
              Yeah.


Jon:
        I love it. Yeah.


Michael:
              It comes out. It really does.


Kathryn:
               It's fun.


Jon:
        Thanks man.


Michael:
              So thank you again for joining us today. The interview with Jon was just really engaging. I really had a good time.


Kathryn:
               Yeah. Really fun to talk to you, Jon.


Michael:
              He's just really intriguing and an interesting guy. Please check out his information and we just thank you again for checking in today. We hope that you got some great tips on thinking about coaches. What does it look like to have a business coach? How do you take advantage of a business coach really well? And one of those things is just making sure you have the right person that you click with and then being all in. I just thought that was a really great tip.


Kathryn:
               Super good tip.


Michael:
              So thank you again for joining us. Let me just sign off by saying I'm Michael Redman.


Kathryn:
               And I am Kathryn Redman.


Michael:
              And this is the HaBO Village podcast. Helping entrepreneurs and business leaders build Passion and Provision companies. And we hope that you have a fantastic week. Take care.


Kathryn:
               Bye.